is it possible for a scrub to become a god?

[Rice03]

I heard from Mang0 on the Leffen doc that if you are not good within the first 2 years then you will most likely never become good. I really want to prove him wrong that one player can become good at this even if they were a low-mid level player for 2 years.

But I really do not understand how to git gud. Of course you have to go to a lot of tournaments, play alot and work on mentality. But how is it that up and coming players like Captain Faceroll , Swedish Delight and N0ne do it so well. What makes these players improve so much to the point where they get better and better placing.

I feel like sometimes that people are born good players which really demotivates me, but i am really tired of getting 0-2, seeded badly and losing to a match up i do not know. I really want to start a new leaf and try to get good. I am not afraid of losing. My mentality on losing is that I try to not let it effect me and that I should be having fun with the game if I want to continue playing.

I really want to try harder after what mang0 just said, but how does one truly git gud. I am a sheik main from Chicago and I want to know how can one be the best. Also I really think do not know if i need to work on mentality, game knowledge or playing better.

 

[Kaxmerg]

Well, M2K was garbage at this game, but now he's one of the gods. I'd say do what he did, study the match-ups and all the frame data, and, more importantly, practice. M2K, from what I heard, had practiced over a thousand hours before he went to his first big tournament, which he dominated. don't push it that far maybe, but do follow in Mr. M2K's footsteps.

 

[Rice03]

Well, M2K was garbage at this game, but now he's one of the gods. I'd say do what he did, study the match-ups and all the frame data, and, more importantly, practice. M2K, from what I heard, had practiced over a thousand hours before he went to his first big tournament, which he dominated. don't push it that far maybe, but do follow in Mr. M2K's footsteps.

I will try to study match ups. The problem is that I have no idea which ones to study for. I come from a region where there is little to no foxs. I think the fox match up is not that important becuase i do not come from a region with many foxes. I think knowledge is very important but how do i know what match ups to study for?

 

[zabimaru1000]

Really good vid by SleepyK. If you truly want to be good at the game you certainly will. There's a whole ton of resources to help you improve that most old school players would only dream of back in the day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CuIesuU84A

 

[Greasy_SSBM]

Leffen became good EXTREMELY fast, as on average it takes the normal player about 2 years to become an above average player. Notice my use of the word average, as some players become good really fast while others become good very slow. Leffen became good within two years, so he was above average before the two years hit. M2K took awhile to become above average, as it seems most people do. However, the players who stick with it after this "two year bar" are generally the players who will climb to the top. Don't be demoralized if you aren't where you want to be after two years. You'll make it if you stick with it.

 

[Ten of Nine]

A lot of people feel this way, especially younger players.

If you're asking specifically about Gods, those are born not trained. Similar to how there are 8 year olds that can sing better than world class opera singers or people that can read an entire book 20x as fast as a normal person while also comprehending more.

You can become REALLY good really fast if you are intelligent and self-aware.

But like anything in life some people just don't have the mind for it and others do (genetics). Same as your height, skin color, eye color, singing range, eyesight, etc. IQ and specifically video game IQ and even more specifically Melee or FG IQ are things that can't be earned or taught. Each person has a preset glass ceiling or learning curve for everything. Some people may go their whole lives without figuring something out while others see it instantly or after an initial failure, the large majority need someone to tell them those things.

But even beyond "gitting gud" technically there are so many layers, like playing on a stage or a stream that can affect you at those next levels. You don't even really have to study frame data or analyze matches to get to a top 100 status, but you need to understand deeply how to read people, how to not get read, and how to choose the right options without hesitation while under pressure.

Find out early if you have bad reaction time or good reaction time and adjust your practice and neutral around that. Cons like that can be outweighed with pros in other departments like option selecting, tech skill, and conditioning. Just always be learning something at a deep level that can apply to facing top players, not just the people you play who may or may not suck. Find loopholes and defects in your own play-style.

 

[Rice03]

I

Leffen became good EXTREMELY fast, as on average it takes the normal player about 2 years to become an above average player. Notice my use of the word average, as some players become good really fast while others become good very slow. Leffen became good within two years, so he was above average before the two years hit. M2K took awhile to become above average, as it seems most people do. However, the players who stick with it after this "two year bar" are generally the players who will climb to the top. Don't be demoralized if you aren't where you want to be after two years. You'll make it if you stick with it.

I have been playing for 2 years and still getting 0-2. I heard m2k took a while before he came good so that makes me feel better. I started when I was 15 and now 17 I just want to take a new leaf to see if I can be better

 

[Ezlo]

Short answer: Yes. M2K is a great example of this, but anyone can become amazing at this game with enough of a work ethic, enough practice (more specifically, smart practice) and a group of skilled players.

Longer answer: Yes. Watch the SleepyK video linked by Zabimaru1000 above and do EVERYTHING he says. That's a great video for helping you learn to improve.

If you want to practice smart, you can't just play against bots, you can't just play against people, you can't just try your hardest each time you play. There has to be more to it. Even grinding tech skill to perfection will not get you results. The best way to improve is to practice whatever is most useful for you, then apply what you practiced in-game (even if it gets you utterly destroyed for a full year, this is the important part), and finally experiment/study to find more to practice and apply.

When I say practice, I don't just mean going into training mode in 20XX and grinding out frame-perfect wavedashes off the ledge into ramen noodles, though that's part of it. I mean everything from chaingrabs to neutral game, spacing to edgeguards, tech skill to IASA frames. You should be practicing every aspect of the game in whatever order makes sense to you -- if you keep dying in tournament because you don't know how to DI, then work on that. Also, just because you're practicing doesn't mean you can't do so against real people. They're hard to come by, but there are people that want to improve as much as you do who are willing to do something specific as many times as you need to practice it, so long as you'll do the same for them.

Get involved. I don't mean just going to tournaments every week. That's only enough to hang out with friends while you're there. If you want to get good, you have to think about the game when you're not playing it, and read on Smashboards or reddit or whatever your website of choice is ALL the time. That is how you become the best.

but hey, I'm not even close to being the best (yet) so don't listen to me. Listen to someone more qualified like SleepyK or Umbreon ( https://smashboards.com/threads/drastic-improvement.311129/ -- read this too, it's gonna be your melee improvement bible).

 

[zabimaru1000]

1. Master tech skill AND character specific ones. Basic important stuff and required to execute in money matches and tournament. I'm assuming you play Fox so this is extremely important. This even includes how you recover to the stage with firefox/side b. If you're unwilling to do this, you might as well pick up smash 4 or another game.

2) Understand what your moves are, how long do they last, how fast do they come out, how far do they reach. This is basic spacing. If you're getting shield grabbed by someone, chances are you badly spaced your move. There are many ways this could happen: Fox full hop nair with no fast fall and no l cancel. Fox's body mostly covers opponents shield = 100% free shield grab. You have to able to use your moves safely without getting grabbed or hit.

3. Polish punish game. This means when you get an opening on your opponent you should at worst deal a lot of damage and/or put your opponent in a bad position. A mastery of this aspect means you are able to take a stock off of one opening. The top level players do this all the time. Even off every slight mistake in every micro situation this game offers.

In the words of PPMD/Tafo ask yourself after every match:
i) How much damage you get per opening?
ii) Why does your punish stop?
iii) How can you continue your combo or leave your opponent in a disadvantageous position?
iv) Are you giving up stage position and momentum when you end a punish?

How you do this is character, stage, and matchup specific. Are you fox vs fox/falco/puff/etc? Are you on X stage? This goes hand in hand in learning matchups and analyzing your own games and top players. For example, Fox dittos on FD means the better Fox chaingrabs better and will convert those into taking stocks off of one grab. This is what the punish game is. Dropping them in the middle of your punish means you still need to improve.

4) Know how to DI. This makes it harder for your opponent to combo you and takes stocks of of you. I won't list all the types of DI here but basically you need to know where and when to flick your control stick depending on which moves hit you. This requires watching your opponent and anticipating what moves they will definitely hit you with.

5) Analyze your own matches and the matches of top players. Know what top players do against their opponent that makes them good. Incorporate them into your play by any means necessary. Use 20XX to practice tech chasing, chaingrabbing, etc. Take notes of what top players do in common situations you face. Ask questions when you play top players. The resources are all there. Watch your own matches and know what mistakes you've made and how much did it cost you (damage, stage positioning, your stock).

6) Understand what's going on in the neutral. This plays towards match analysis of your own games and understand what's going on in top player's matches. This is only something you can understand/improve yourself. There's no clear cookie cutter answer for this. The basic rule is you have to be in a state where you show no openings/opportunities to your opponent while you are actively finding openings on your opponent. This include mixups, dash dance timings, making your opponents whiff their moves, crouch canceling, etc.

 

[zabimaru1000]

And most important of all: HAVE FUN, go to tournaments, play friendlies, play top players, and get destroyed. But also know how to play and learn intelligently.

 

[JFB (JurgaBurgaFlintines)]

In my opinion, there has never been a better time than now to get into Melee and get real good. Sure, the meta is super advanced and there is a ridiculously large learning curve. The one thing that remedies this is that there are SOO MANY, I repeat, SOO MANY resources to use in order to get good and learn the game. Smashboards and The Melee Library are two amazing examples of resources that have pages and pages and paragraph after paragraph of every aspect of competitive Melee. Not only that, you have: Guides on Youtube, Netplay, local tournaments and a local scene just about everywhere (At least in the US), random blogs, sets to watch on Youtube.

When you have so many resources at the palm of your hands, you can get good fast. So fast that you can go to a scrub to a God in 6-12 months. But, it is not easy by any means. In order to get good this fast, you need to dedicate large amounts of time to learning the game, researching stuff, analyzing sets and thinking about the game every day (Not including practicing techskilll) and play people every week whether it be at a friends house or your local weekly. On top of that, you have to be self-aware of problems you make as well as when you hit plateaus and fix those immediately. This is not an easy task by any means, but it is absolutely possible.

 

[-ACE-]

In my opinion, there has never been a better time than now to get into Melee and get real good. Sure, the meta is super advanced and there is a ridiculously large learning curve. The one thing that remedies this is that there are SOO MANY, I repeat, SOO MANY resources to use in order to get good and learn the game. Smashboards and The Melee Library are two amazing examples of resources that have pages and pages and paragraph after paragraph of every aspect of competitive Melee. Not only that, you have: Guides on Youtube, Netplay, local tournaments and a local scene just about everywhere (At least in the US), random blogs, sets to watch on Youtube.

When you have so many resources at the palm of your hands, you can get good fast. So fast that you can go to a scrub to a God in 6-12 months. But, it is not easy by any means. In order to get good this fast, you need to dedicate large amounts of time to learning the game, researching stuff, analyzing sets and thinking about the game every day (Not including practicing techskilll) and play people every week whether it be at a friends house or your local weekly. On top of that, you have to be self-aware of problems you make as well as when you hit plateaus and fix those immediately. This is not an easy task by any means, but it is absolutely possible.

The only thing to add to this is travel. PLAY GOOD PEOPLE EVERY CHANCE YOU GET. And be good at taking advice.

 

[Rice03]

The only thing to add to this is travel. PLAY GOOD PEOPLE EVERY CHANCE YOU GET. And be good at taking advice.

I would like to travel but I cant. there are lots of weeklies in my region though.

 

[Kaxmerg]

I'd say practice against all the characters, and see which ones you do bad against. After you know for sure which ones you have trouble with, practice against them. See their combos, moves, frame data, and see what you can do to prevent that.

 

[JFB (JurgaBurgaFlintines)]

I would like to travel but I cant. there are lots of weeklies in my region though.

If you can't travel to tournaments, your best bet is to practice techskill and research stuff about the game and watch sets.

 

[Rice03]

I'd say practice against all the characters, and see which ones you do bad against. After you know for sure which ones you have trouble with, practice against them. See their combos, moves, frame data, and see what you can do to prevent that.

I pracitce alot againist fox for tech chasing but my local does not have many Fox mains. I did well facing a good player named passion at my local i took a game off of him.

but any ways I should pracitce the top 8 charcters. I do well againist certain characters like fox and falcon but not well facing peach and ice climbers. I think i should be prepared for all match ups if I research match ups alot.

 

[-ACE-]

Practice techchasing against Falco too, to get used to his longer roll

 

[zabimaru1000]

If you're bad against ICs it's because you're most likely doing terrible badly spaced approaches 90% of the time and getting grabbed. Also you're not effectively killing Nana from every opening you get.

 

[Rice03]

Practice techchasing against Falco too, to get used to his longer roll

that a pretty good idea

 

[-ACE-]

that a pretty good idea

Yeah, if you can techchase Falco you can do falcon. He has the longer roll like Falco but bigger target.

 

[Tyjira]

I think its just dedication. You have to be dedicated.

The rest will follow.

 

[Rpggames77]

alot of people forget that leffen use to play and retired and only got good once he came back

 

[Onmitsu]

Honestly, just practice tech and play a lot. Whenever I'm trying to implement new tech in my game play, I play scrubs so there's no pressure when trying to incorporate it in my game play. That way, I'll already be use to it when I play the better players.

 

[_Bandit_]

Don't make excuses. The number 1 thing I see that keeps people bad at the game is trying to justify being bad. You can say things like "fox is just too good" or "I can't/don't need to learn to do x technique," but that is actively making you worse because you refuse to put the time in to learn to beat fox or do whatever tech skill. The game doesn't care if you think fox is too good. The game only cares if you win or lose. Fox is still going to be in the game, shield dropping will still be a useful technique (these are just examples). There was no point in M2K's training when he said "Oh, I don't need to learn to shield drop. Oh, I don't need to learn every one of Pikachu's oos options." He perfected every aspect of his play, rather than just playing for fun or autopiloting. I don't know if this is your problem, but it is a frequent one, and one people don't like to admit that they have.

 

[ChivalRuse]

^ This. Also, please don't be that guy who complains about seeding while going 0-2 in bracket.

 

[rivers]

It's totally possible but you have to put in the work. It sounds like Mango was talking about some mystical thing that like if you're not showing potential in two years it's impossible to be good.

He's saying that, for the most part, if you haven't put in effort and are starting to actually show promise, you probably never will put in the effort.

And it's more than just pushing buttons. Yeah tech skill is great but it doesn't mean **** if you're ass at the PVP aspect of the game.