[In Progress] Everything You Could Ever Want to Know About Snake's Crouch

[cisyphus]

Mostly, this is a "What can I crouch under as Snake safely?" thread with everything possible listed. So let's go! I thought about putting this in my spreadsheet, but there are some data points which can't be properly expressed in cells. If nothing else, this thread will act as supplemental reading for the spreadsheet, which will have each character on the Y axis and each move on the X with a simple yes/no/sometimes to show which moves whiff and when. Then I'll have a note at the top reading "see x thread for further information." For now, I'm tired and have a tournament to prep for, so until then!

The key thing to remember about Snake's crouch is that his head hurtbox sits very slightly higher than his torso hurtbox which sits higher than his legs hurtbox while in crouch, so the ideal position to avoid hits is to have your legs toward your opponent. I'm also going to ignore aerials completely, as it's sometimes too ambiguous to know with certainty whether an aerial will always whiff.

Also: To avoid confusion, a "pivot grab" is a grab performed out of a pivot whereas a "turn grab" is dash grab + opposite direction of momentum.

Spoiler: Data

Spoiler: Bowser

Tilts:
Forward Tilt will whiff unless it is angled down.
Up Tilt will whiff if Snake is behind Bowser and facing away
Grab can whiff on Snake's legs

Spoiler: Ice Climbers

Tilts
Upward Angle Forward Tilt can whiff
Smashes
Up Smash whiffs
Specials
Belay whiffs
Grab whiffs on legs

Spoiler: Jigglypuff

Nothing whiffs

Spoiler: Link

Tilts:
Up Tilt will whiff if Snake is in front of Link
Smashes:
Up Smash will only hit with the first hit if Snake is behind Link (whiffs completely if Snake faces away)
Specials:
Arrows require good spacing
Boomerang can only hit Snake's torso and must be angled down to do so
Bombs also require good spacing
Grabs:
Standing grab cannot hit Snake's legs
Dash grab whiffs completely
Turn grab only works point-blank on Snake's torso

Spoiler: Lucario

Jab whiffs on legs
Specials:
Aura Sphere's charge will only hit after around a second of charge and will always miss the legs
Grabs whiff on legs

Spoiler: Lucas

Smashes:
Up Smash will whiff
Forward Smash can whiff if it's angled up and tippered.
Grabs can whiff on legs

Spoiler: Luigi

Smashes:
Up Smash always whiffs
Up Angle Forward Smash always whiffs
Specials:
UpB will never shoryuken
Grabs always whiff

Spoiler: Mario

Smashes
Up Smash whiffs if Mario faces away from Snake or is on the legs side
Specials
Fireballs can bounce over Snake completely.
Grabs whiff on legs

Spoiler: Marth

Tilts
Up Tilt will always whiff
Specials
Second and Final hits of Dancing Blade Angled Upward whiff
Grabs
Standing grab whiffs on legs and if Marth isn't directly next to Snake.
Turn grab always whiffs
Dash grab whiffs on legs only

Spoiler: Meta Knight

Tilts
Up tilt will always whiff
Smashes
Up Smash whiffs unless Meta Knight is on top of Snake's legs
Grabs whiffs on legs

Spoiler: Mewtwo

Jab whiffs
Tilts
Up tilt whiffs when Snake is behind Mewtwo
Smashes
Up Smash only hits once (insignificant damage + free punish)
Specials
Shadow Balls whiff more often than not (mostly charged required)
Confusion whiffs on legs (windbox still hits)
Disable always whiffs
Grabs always whiff on legs
Standing grab whiffs unless Mewtwo has momentum toward Snake (via walk, pivot, or jump cancel).

Spoiler: Ness

Tilts
Up Tilt whiffs
Grabs whiff on legs

Spoiler: Peach

Jab whiffs
Tilts
Up Tilt whiffs
Smashes
Up Smash whiffs
Specials
Peach Bomber whiffs
Parasol whiffs
Grab always whiffs

Spoiler: Pikachu

Smashes
Up Smash whiffs if Snake is behind Pikachu facing away
Specials
Grab whiffs on legs

Spoiler: Pikmin & Olimar

Smashes
Up Smash whiffs

Spoiler: Pit

Tilts
Up Tilt whiffs
F-tilt angled up can whiff
Smashes
Up Smash whiffs
Specials
Arrows must be angled into Snake to hit
Up B only hits if Pit has momentum toward Snake's Torso
Grab whiffs on legs

Spoiler: Pokemon Trainer: Ivysaur

Smashes
Up Smash whiffs if Ivysaur is by Snake's torso
Specials
Grab whiffs on legs

Spoiler: Pokemon Trainer: Charizard

Tilts
Up Tilt whiffs
Forward tilt can whiff
Smashes
Up Smash only hits with momentum toward Snake
Specials
Grab whiffs on legs

Spoiler: Pokemon Trainer: Squirtle

Tilts
Up Tilt
Grab whiffs on legs

Spoiler: R.O.B.

Jab First misses, second hits
Tilts
Forward Tilt must be angled down to hit
Up Tilt whiffs
Smashes
Forward Smash must be angled down to hit
Up Smash only hits with the first hitbox (punishable)
Specials
Laser must be angled downward
Grab whiffs on legs

Spoiler: Roy

Jab whiffs on Snakes legs
Tilts
Forward tilt misses if angled up and tipped
Up tilt only hits with its first hitbox (behind Roy)
Smashes
Up Smash whiffs next to legs
Grabs whiff on legs

Spoiler: Samus

Jab first whiffs, second hits
Tilts
F-tilt must be angled down
Smashes
Forward Smash (Fire and Ice) must be angled down
Up Smash (Fire and Ice) whiff
Specials
Charge Shot must be almost fully charged to hit
Missiles must be homing to hit
Bomb initially misses, but falls and hits later
Grabs whiff on legs

Spoiler: Zero Suit Samus

Jab whiffs completely
Tilts
Up Tilt whiffs
Forward Tilt whiffs unless angled down
Smashes
Up Smash always whiffs
Forward Smash whiffs if Snake is behind ZSS
Specials
Neutral B always whiffs
Side B requires spacing to hit
Up B launches if ZSS has momentum into Snake's Torso, otherwise only the first hit works
Grabs
Standing grab whiffs
Dash grab only hits Snake's head
Turn grab whiffs

 

[Professor Pro]

On Samus, crouch whiffs under her getup attack, which means if you D-Throw her, you don't need to worry about that option at all, and you can react to the others.

You might be able to with other characters as well.

 

[yink059]

On Samus, crouch whiffs under her getup attack, which means if you D-Throw her, you don't need to worry about that option at all, and you can react to the others.

You might be able to with other characters as well.

One of Ganon's get ups too (where he spins his legs around, not sure on criteria for this getup). Cfalc has the same one but it's too low so you can't crouch under it.

 

[BND]

One of Ganon's get ups too (where he spins his legs around, not sure on criteria for this getup). Cfalc has the same one but it's too low so you can't crouch under it.

Criteria for that is the face-up lying-on-ground animation, which is forced by Snake's dthrow. The other animation probably doesn't matter for all intents and purposes, since you should probably be, at the very least, jab resetting them in that scenario.

 

[cisyphus]

yeah the getup attacks are the biggest reason to do this, but I was gonna put all that into the down throw section of my spreadsheet.

I _think_ there are different animations at >100% tho.

 

[BND]

Nope; they look the same (0% vs 999% in training mode). Never heard of a >100% getup attack vs a <100% getup attack--that's only on the ledge--and I don't think I've ever experienced different getup attacks after dthrowing. The only classifications seem to be face up and face down.

 

[LupinX]

Do you think space animals will whiff the torso and leg crouch as well?

 

[cisyphus]

Comprehensive grab duck list:
C.Falcon Stand grab
C.Falcon Dash grab (2/3 hitboxes—outer)
C.Falcon Pivot grab

Dedede Dash grab

Diddy's Side-B command grab (when level)

Falco Dash grab (1/2 hitboxes—inner)
Falco Pivot grab (1/2 hitboxes—inner)

Ganondorf Stand grab
Ganondorf Dash grab
Ganondorf Pivot grab (2/3 hitboxes—inner)

Ike Stand grab
Ike dash grab (2/3 hitboxes—outer)
Ike Pivot grab (2/3 hitboxes—outer)

Lucario SideB grab hitbox

Luigi Stand grab
Luigi Dash grab
Luigi Pivot grab

Marth Stand grab (2/3 hitboxes—outer)

Mewtwo stand grab (1/2 hitboxes—outer)

Peach Stand grab
Peach Dash grab
Peach Pivot grab

Pit Dash grab
Pit Pivot grab

Roy Stand grab (1/3 hitboxes—outer)
Roy pivot grab (1/2 hitboxes—outer)

Sheik stand grab
Sheik dash grab (1/3 hitboxes—back)
Sheik pivot grab (2/3 hitboxes—sides)

Snake Stand grab
Snake Dash grab (2/3 hitboxes—inner)
Snake Pivot grab

Zelda Stand grab
Zelda dash grab

Zero Suit Samus Stand grab
Zero Suit Samus Dash grab
Zero Suit Samus Pivot grab