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Importance of a character may not be as essebtial as many think

Mr.Talk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
69
OK I know it might sound like a crazy comment but hear me out.

Now I'm talking about the importance for all characters from any franchise. People have describe importance by the following factors. Games in there past, fanbase, and signifagance to nintendo. I think I clearly know what Sakurai was saying when he says popularity of a character doesn't intrest him. You know characters have to have a game they can star/costar in to make a fanbase. Just about any game can have characters in them to have a fanbase. So what makes brawl any different? Brawl may be a game that a lot of people are waiting for and a game that might be played for a long number of years but the main thing is that it's just a game. A game that consist of characters and fighting. The characters in these games have a fanbase, some may be bigger than others but there's still a fanbase for everyone.

When sakurai said "nintendo all stars" notice that he never gave a description of what he thought an all star was yet people assumed they knew what he was saying when he said all star. That's one reason why there are character wars today. Sakurai can put just about any character in for just about any reason. why? cause he can. You know smash bros isn't just a game where characters just show off there importance but a game where it can give popularity to characters and essentially making them more of an all star. Then many of you will say "what about goomba or a koopa" well all I have to say is as long as sakurai can make them a uniqe and cool character it really just doesn't matter

Now let's look at the games these characters have in the past. There are many characters that came from a lot of different franchises and uniqe games. With these games came different roles. Hero/sidekick/bad guy/damsel in distress/supporter/helper etc. From these games comes fans of these different characters which give them a fanbase. Any character just needs one game to get fans remember that. More games are made for characters some being made for brand new characters and ones made to continue playing with the old characters. Now smashbros seems to be another game made to include characters in a fighting enviroment. Smashbros melee consisted of really old characters that came from nintendo's past, current characters that are well known around that time, brand new characters that didn't even have a game before smashbros came out.

The point is smash bros brawl is going to be another game made for any type of character. Doesn't really matter what kind of history a character has had in the past. This game could be good for the characters future in nintendo itself Cause eventually more games will come out and pretty soon brawl will be in nintendos past. It'll probably be a long time before that happens but it's gonna happen.

Next is fanbase. A characters fanbase really doesn't matter when it comes to a character being in brawl cause if the character was in brawl I'm sure their fanbase would increase. Plus there are fans of just about any character you can think of and there many people who don't like some characters. Also there are new gamers everyday, which means they will be fans of some characters while playing games. Pretty much all I have to say on this topic

Now for the signifagance topic. Some games are more popular than others and they sell more than others. Then there are the games that weren't as popular as other but still good amonst the nintendo gaming community. Everyone thinks that since these characters were in these popular games they derserve a spot in brawl most. Brawl seems to be proving that it's going to be a best seller before it even comes out regardless of what characters are in there. Most people outside these forums don't really care who gets in. They want to see the creativity and improvements in brawl. They're waiting to see what smash bros is capable of doing when it's on the wii. Characters seems to be only a fraction of the games importance but many here on nsider thinks that if certain characters don't get in nobody will buy the game.

Remember that the creativity of brawl also means how creative sakurai and his team can get with the use of characters. I'm talking about any character, just look at the trailers. You have characters that can fly, You have characters that can transform, and with the additions of brawl attacks they can tap into the deepest amount of power a character has. Brawl is gonna be a great game but it doesn't have to give out VIP passes to ones that have been in more games or ones that you think are more important than others.

Just think for a minute. You are a fan of one series but does that me everyone is. We have multiple countries chalk full of people with many different favorite franchises. Just because some people tried to suggest there character for brawl to sakurai himself doesn't mean that others won't want some different characters in brawl. Well that's completely all I have to say.

I'm always up for a debate so if want to go at it then it's fine by me. Just know spam or flame please

this is one of my threads from another forum too
 

Pomfrod

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
161
Certainly there will be a few odd characters in Brawl, but overall, the roster must be determined by popularity. It can be no other way. This is a character driven game, and its sales will be determined by the selling power of its characters. A game with Princess Ruto, Shyguy, Katt Monroe, Thardus, Electrike, Dynablade, Wrinkly Kong, and Mr. EAD would not have the market that Mario, Link, Pikachu, and Kirby have. The primary basis for inclusion will be the recognizability of the character. That's not to say they won't sneak in a G&W now and then for nostalgic purposes.

Look at Soul Calibur II. It was released on all three platforms last generation. It sold more copies on the Cube than the other two consoles combined, and the Cube was the console with the least household penetration. Why? Link was only available on the Cube version, and he is a recognizable and popular character.

Brawl's success as a game is not a given. Sakurai's team still has to make careful decisions to make this game both artful and sellable. We all loved Melee, but ask Kutaragi about taking a fanbase for granted.
 

#HBC | marshy

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Now I'm talking about the importance for all characters from any franchise. People have describe importance by the following factors. Games in there past, fanbase, and signifagance to nintendo. I think I clearly know what Sakurai was saying when he says popularity of a character doesn't intrest him. You know characters have to have a game they can star/costar in to make a fanbase. Just about any game can have characters in them to have a fanbase. So what makes brawl any different? Brawl may be a game that a lot of people are waiting for and a game that might be played for a long number of years but the main thing is that it's just a game. A game that consist of characters and fighting. The characters in these games have a fanbase, some may be bigger than others but there's still a fanbase for everyone.

Describe what you see as important, I may say x character is important because he had a little role in a successful game, while you say x character is important because he had the main role in a not so popular game.

When sakurai said "nintendo all stars" notice that he never gave a description of what he thought an all star was yet people assumed they knew what he was saying when he said all star.

You know smash bros isn't just a game where characters just show off there importance but a game where it can give popularity to characters and essentially making them more of an all star. Then many of you will say "what about goomba or a koopa" well all I have to say is as long as sakurai can make them a uniqe and cool character it really just doesn't matter
all-star
2. consisting entirely of star performers: an all-star cast.
–noun
I took this from Dictionary.com

Since he didn't give a description of what he saw as an all-star, people tend to think it's the word's real definition, not such a crazy idea to me. Star performers; important characters; characters who made an impact on the game they appeared in; characters who had a lead role in a game, etc.

That's one reason why there are character wars today. Sakurai can put just about any character in for just about any reason. why? cause he can.
...:urg:

Now let's look at the games these characters have in the past. There are many characters that came from a lot of different franchises and uniqe games. With these games came different roles. Hero/sidekick/bad guy/damsel in distress/supporter/helper etc. From these games comes fans of these different characters which give them a fanbase. Any character just needs one game to get fans remember that. More games are made for characters some being made for brand new characters and ones made to continue playing with the old characters. Now smashbros seems to be another game made to include characters in a fighting enviroment. Smashbros melee consisted of really old characters that came from nintendo's past, current characters that are well known around that time, brand new characters that didn't even have a game before smashbros came out.
blah,blah,blah heard this before, uh-huh, moving on.

The point is smash bros brawl is going to be another game made for any type of character. Doesn't really matter what kind of history a character has had in the past. This game could be good for the characters future in nintendo itself Cause eventually more games will come out and pretty soon brawl will be in nintendos past. It'll probably be a long time before that happens but it's gonna happen.
Next is fanbase. A characters fanbase really doesn't matter when it comes to a character being in brawl cause if the character was in brawl I'm sure their fanbase would increase.
So basically, let's add unimportant characters so they can get popular and be part of Nintendo's past, as opposed to adding already popular characters...? Clarify this for me.

Now for the signifagance topic. Some games are more popular than others and they sell more than others. Then there are the games that weren't as popular as other but still good amonst the nintendo gaming community. Everyone thinks that since these characters were in these popular games they derserve a spot in brawl most. Brawl seems to be proving that it's going to be a best seller before it even comes out regardless of what characters are in there. Most people outside these forums don't really care who gets in. They want to see the creativity and improvements in brawl. They're waiting to see what smash bros is capable of doing when it's on the wii. Characters seems to be only a fraction of the games importance but many here on nsider thinks that if certain characters don't get in nobody will buy the game.
I'm not getting it, a (nintendo)game is usually popular because of the nintendo gaming community.

Remember that the creativity of brawl also means how creative sakurai and his team can get with the use of characters. I'm talking about any character, just look at the trailers. You have characters that can fly, You have characters that can transform, and with the additions of brawl attacks they can tap into the deepest amount of power a character has. Brawl is gonna be a great game but it doesn't have to give out VIP passes to ones that have been in more games or ones that you think are more important than others.
This can mean a lot of things, some characters being more important than others is undeniable, Mario will always be more important than a goomba, Wario will always be more important than one his bat enemies, etc.


Just think for a minute.
Sure.

You are a fan of one series but does that me everyone is.
Ouch, that made my brain hurt.

We have multiple countries chalk full of people with many different favorite franchises. Just because some people tried to suggest there character for brawl to sakurai himself doesn't mean that others won't want some different characters in brawl. Well that's completely all I have to say.
What I bolded is all I got from this thread.
 

Mr.Talk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
69
Describe what you see as important, I may say x character is important because he had a little role in a successful game, while you say x character is important because he had the main role in a not so popular game.

I say I see importance as in a character has been in a nintendo game and they did not originate from anime. Those are the basics



all-star
2. consisting entirely of star performers: an all-star cast.
–noun
I took this from Dictionary.com

Since he didn't give a description of what he saw as an all-star, people tend to think it's the word's real definition, not such a crazy idea to me. Star performers; important characters; characters who made an impact on the game they appeared in; characters who had a lead role in a game, etc.

People could also take those words out of context of it's actual definition too. He could have ment every character in nintendo is an all star to compliment nintendo as a whole. But whatever the guess is it's just a guess



...:urg:



blah,blah,blah heard this before, uh-huh, moving on.




So basically, let's add unimportant characters so they can get popular and be part of Nintendo's past, as opposed to adding already popular characters...? Clarify this for me.

Really you don't want to see any fresh new characters and want to see only the current ones that are more popular now as opposed to what might happen in the future. Keeping everything as popular only is going to get unpopular very fast. How do you think these characters came to be popular? They have starred in games and made a name for themselves. Denying everyone else that chance is not a good move to make



I'm not getting it, a (nintendo)game is usually popular because of the nintendo gaming community.

Don't the creators have to make the game good for the community? The characters in the game make it good included with good graphics, game play, and a solid story always help make the game appeal to new gamers



This can mean a lot of things, some characters being more important than others is undeniable, Mario will always be more important than a goomba, Wario will always be more important than one his bat enemies, etc.




Sure.


Ouch, that made my brain hurt.

get a bandaid;)


What I bolded is all I got from this thread.
basically all i have to say about ur comments
 

Promethus

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
109
Popular characters won't get unpopular why do you think they're popular in the first place?
I mean really.
And if were gonna try and make someone popular wouldn't that mean they would get unpopular?
 

Pomfrod

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 5, 2006
Messages
161
After careful reading between the lines, I think that Mr. Talk is saying nothing more than, "Nintendo, in addition to employing the well-known characters, can also use Brawl as a vehicle to advertise franchises Nintendo wants to advance in the future."

This statement is reasonable. Few would argue that Nintendo's ability to push Fire Emblem in the US was largely due to Marth and Roy getting an intro in Melee. I could also see the same thing happening to Sta(r)fy over the next few years.

Super Smash Bros. is the United Nations of Nintendo. It is in this forum of slams, grabs, and dodges that the conflicts of the past are resolved and the plans for the future are culled. Not only can Smash be a hall of fame for the greats of antiquity to once again please fans, but it can serve as an exposition for Nintendo to bring into the public light its coming innovations.
 

Croco

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,258
Location
New York, NY
I'm expecting Sakurai to include nearly forgotten characters.
Unique characters..
I'm expecting/hoping to see..
Dr. Wright, Balloon Fighter or Alice, and Mike Jones etc.
Why?
They ARE Nintendo All Stars.. Characters I grew up playing and seeing as a kid.
Just like Samus, Mario, Link, Captain Falcon, Kirby, and Ness.. They are the stars of their own games.
Dr. Wright for example supports Sim City. He appeared on the SNES (Sim City),Gameboy (Link's Awaking as a Cameo), and N64 DD (Sim City 64)
He also appears as a trophy in Melee.. and that says ALLOT, so much that Sakurai w/ HAL Laboratory did not forget that character.

How do we know Dr. Wright wasn't going to be playable in Melee?
Think about that..
I heard talks before about how the Balloon Fighter trophy was a WIP character.
Dr. Wright has one.. ;)

I actually do expect Dr. Wright to get in Brawl before a character like Ridley..
If he doesn't get in before Ridley.. I may get disappointed.. but eh. I'll still love the game.
 
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This argument is flawed.

The main thing that was not presented was how this information was presented,and evidence of which what Sakurai said was correct.

This seems to be one of those"Sakurai said any character can get in because he said popular characters don't interest him" Arguments.

When Sakurai stated that,it was directed towards characters of our time that are popular.So in other,Popularity=/= Modern referances,which means he is not going to only include characters from recent incarnations,but also from past characters as well.

Popularity is not equivilant to insignificance,so that theory is invalid.
 

greenblob

Smash Lord
Joined
May 17, 2006
Messages
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Location
SF Bay Area
I think it's safe to assume that the more popular a character, the more likely it is that that character will be in Brawl.
Also, I think it's safe to assume that the vast majority of characters were playable in their respective games. Either that or they were central to the plot (example: Zelda).
That being said, I think it's very unlikely that we'll see the mushroom from "Zombies ate my Neighbors."
 

Mr.Talk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
69
This argument is flawed.

The main thing that was not presented was how this information was presented,and evidence of which what Sakurai said was correct.

This seems to be one of those"Sakurai said any character can get in because he said popular characters don't interest him" Arguments.

When Sakurai stated that,it was directed towards characters of our time that are popular.So in other,Popularity=/= Modern referances,which means he is not going to only include characters from recent incarnations,but also from past characters as well.
Popularity is not equivilant to insignificance,so that theory is invalid.
Whats bolded is my main problem. That right there is assumption excluding many characters out of the whole mix. I already stated that he is gonna put in some characters that are recently none and obscure characters from the past and maybe some characters that might come out in the future. Plus I think the signifagance could mean the same thing as all star because many people put any characters signifagance into the character being an all star.

He only put up two well known boundaries which is 1.Has to appear in a nintendo game 2. cannot originate from any anime. Of course were gonna have some characters that common sense pretty much tells us that they won't get in (AKA Goomba, redead, octocrock,etc) but that doesn't mean they don't have a chance. We can always assume what will or will not happen but with all characters considered it's 50/50 Sakurai's yes or no decision.
 
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Whats bolded is my main problem. That right there is assumption excluding many characters out of the whole mix. I already stated that he is gonna put in some characters that are recently none and obscure characters from the past and maybe some characters that might come out in the future. Plus I think the signifagance could mean the same thing as all star because many people put any characters signifagance into the character being an all star.

He only put up two well known boundaries which is 1.Has to appear in a nintendo game 2. cannot originate from any anime. Of course were gonna have some characters that common sense pretty much tells us that they won't get in (AKA Goomba, redead, octocrock,etc) but that doesn't mean they don't have a chance. We can always assume what will or will not happen but with all characters considered it's 50/50 Sakurai's yes or no decision.
Obscure isn't equivilant to overlooked.
 

Mr.Talk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
69
obscure
1. (of meaning) not clear or plain; ambiguous, vague, or uncertain: an obscure sentence in the contract.
2. not clear to the understanding; hard to perceive: obscure motivations.

Definition was found here
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/obscure

So with that definition let's make a connection with characters. This could connect to characters that are not well known to many gamers because of the few games that character has been in or that character not making any video game appearence at all. Mr.G&W, ice climbers, pit(maybe),marth,and roy could all be consider obscure.

overlooked
To fail to notice or consider; miss.
To ignore deliberately or indulgently; disregard same website

meaning not noticing or disregarding certan characters for whatever reason. So sakurai could have not notice a character making that character obscure to him. The two words look closely similar with minor differences.
 

dotdotdot!

BRoomer
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I still think it's still too early to make any fantastical leaps of logic in ANY direction, and instead look at what definitely HAS been said and done, rather than trying to glean extra meaning from what's been said.
 
D

Deleted member

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This is exactly what I've been thinking for years. Thats why i support who i do.
 

shadenexus18

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Well, Nintendo is an unpredictable game company to say the least. A part of me thinks that the final character roster of Brawl will have 2 to 3 characters that don't have a great fan base here in the United States. I could be wrong but it's a strong gut feeling that I just can't seem to shake.
 

killbeast301

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What I think you're trying to say is that Brawl is not just a Hall of Fame, and that any character can get in, as long as said character would be fun to play as. Which is why Iron Knuckle would kick arse. Let's face it though, "important" characters have a better chance.
 

shadenexus18

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To add on to what killbeast just said: Like it or not, the most important character franchise's (Mario, Link, and Samus are on the top 3) will get more character representation. It also includes weapons from there games, more stages, etc. That's just the way it is.
 

Mr.Talk

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Hey thanks for the comments guys, this turned out to be some pretty good discussion here with some agreeing and some not agreeing.
 

Black/Light

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I have to give you huge ups on actually saying how norm/ arvg people don't really care about which characters get added. This is something I recently came across in my school. . . people only really want to see Sonic VS Mario because of how Snake has made the idea turn from " NeVRs GgoinG to HaPPen, ITs sEge NoT NinTendo!" to ". . .Wow, the men behind brawl openly stated they want Sonic. . ."

People also forget that what we, internet using members of forums about SSB (aka a very VERY small fraction of ssb fans), see as popular/ important characters =/= what the rest of the world sees. I truely don't think half (at the most) of the "popular" characters we internet fans think will get in will actually make it in.:p

Good post.
 

Mr.Talk

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Joined
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Messages
69
I have to give you huge ups on actually saying how norm/ arvg people don't really care about which characters get added. This is something I recently came across in my school. . . people only really want to see Sonic VS Mario because of how Snake has made the idea turn from " NeVRs GgoinG to HaPPen, ITs sEge NoT NinTendo!" to ". . .Wow, the men behind brawl openly stated they want Sonic. . ."

People also forget that what we, internet using members of forums about SSB (aka a very VERY small fraction of ssb fans), see as popular/ important characters =/= what the rest of the world sees. I truely don't think half (at the most) of the "popular" characters we internet fans think will get in will actually make it in.:p

Good post.
yeah it's almost like were in the minority compared to the people outside the internet. Thanks for the post too:lick:
 
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