I'm working on a Melee retrospective video, and I'd like some help on the competitive scene!

[ViewtifulJosh]

Allo there, Smashboards. My name is Josh, and I run a YouTube channel called The Geek Critique Some of you may have seen my retrospective video on Smash 64 from a few weeks ago.

Well, playing Smash 4 has taken up every iota of my free time since then, but challenge board 3 is nearly complete, and I’m finally ready to get started on the follow-up: the Melee retrospective.

In this video, one thing I’d like to give an overview of is the competitive scene. Melee seems like the perfect place to do that. The problem is, while I’ve kind of kept up with the scene over the years, I’m comparatively a pretty casual Smash player myself. I mean, I’ve dropped hundreds upon hundreds of hours into every game in the series, but my competition rarely expanded past my friend circle.

I feel I owe it to the community to get this stuff right. And I want to make this video the best it possibly can be. If you’d like to help me out, I have a few questions:

• One thing I noticed in the reaction to my Smash 64 video was that a small but vocal portion of the community tends to be VERY dedicated to that game. I stated that in my opinon, Smash 64 felt a bit imprecise and unbalanced, and I took a little criticism for that. While I could have clarified my postion more, I may try to address this as part of the Melee video. So, especially if you do prefer 64 above the rest, is Smash 64 considered balanced from a competitive standpoint? In what way did I get it wrong?

• I’m finding some good stuff on Melee’s development and what Sakurai put himself through, but is there any sort of history of the scene I might be able to reference? If not, would anyone mind telling me a bit about it?

• What do you guys think of the whole, “No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination,” meme that influences the way the community is popularly thought of?

• What are your thoughts on the often-heard counter-argument to competitive Smash: that it’s not “supposed” to be played that way, it should be a party game, or a fun time, or whatever? I’ve heard people say that competitive Smash players are “playing it wrong,” and I’ve heard competitive Smashers say the exact same thing about the other side.

Anything else you think might add to the video, just let me know. I’d love to get a discussion going, here. I know a HUGE swath of the community is going to be fiercely loyal to Melee. And while I might be a bit confused by Smash 64’s loyalists, I definitely understand Melee’s. There’s no other game quite like it. Still, I’m not a competitive player, and while I’m not at all hesitant to share my opinions, I would hate to get anything really off-base, especially on more objective stuff, so I may be asking for clarification on things as I work on the script.

Thanks, everyone!

 

[Spak]

I can only answer two questions out of the four, but I hope my replies will be useful.

3. I think that the "No Items" part is accurate (since the West Coast stopped doing that mid-ish 2000s), but there are many more viable characters in Melee than just Fox and there are multiple neutral stages and one counter-pick, but the accuracy of that generality it depends on the group of people playing.

4. Melee was made to be a party game, but has developed a competitive scene. With it came a loyal and dedicated fanbase that come with tornament-quality fighting games, thus the reason a majority of us are here. I believe that Melee is basic at its core (easy to puck up, simple controls) and complex as you get deeper into the game (wavedashing, dashdancing, JC grab, etc.), so it is suited for both casual and competitive play, depending on how deep you go into the mechanics. I hardly believe it was intended to be completely casual because they purposefully programmed
L-cancelling. Most competitive fighting games have unexpected techniques, like SF2 and combos. Capcom then realized they had created something great and officially added combos to the game. Melee's big unexpected technique was Wavedashing/Wavelanding, but Sakurai didn't want Smash Bros to become a mainly competitive game, and gave up the opportunity when he took Wavedashing, L-cancelling, and a majority of the known competitive techniques out of Brawl.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Have you watched The Smash Brothers documentary?

 

[ViewtifulJosh]

I can only answer two questions out of the four, but I hope my replies will be useful.

Absolutely, thanks for the response!

3. I think that the "No Items" part is accurate (since the West Coast stopped doing that mid-ish 2000s), but there are many more viable characters in Melee than just Fox and there are multiple neutral stages and one counter-pick, but the accuracy of that generality it depends on the group of people playing.
.

Yeah, I know there's a lot more variety than that. Like, I know the meme isn't REALLY how the scene is, aside from no items. I guess I'm just wondering if it bothers people that that's how the community is viewed by a lot of people outside of it, especially considering Smash 4 gave us Omega stages based on FD instead of Battlefield. As a comparison point, I'm a big Sonic the Hedgehog fan, and I find myself having to constantly explain to people that the games' mechanics are a lot deeper than just, "Gotta go fast." Of course, Sega's own marketing didn't help me there.

As for the documentary, I'll definitely be watching that.

 

[Spak]

Yeah, I know there's a lot more variety than that. Like, I know the meme isn't REALLY how the scene is, aside from no items. I guess I'm just wondering if it bothers people that that's how the community is viewed by a lot of people outside of it, especially considering Smash 4 gave us Omega stages based on FD instead of Battlefield.

A majority of my friends and I just joke about "No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination" once in a while whenever it comes up because we know how different competitive Melee is from that generalization, but I personally don't mind what the rest of the world thinks competitive Melee is like.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Yeah, I know there's a lot more variety than that. Like, I know the meme isn't REALLY how the scene is, aside from no items. I guess I'm just wondering if it bothers people that that's how the community is viewed by a lot of people outside of it, especially considering Smash 4 gave us Omega stages based on FD instead of Battlefield. As a comparison point, I'm a big Sonic the Hedgehog fan, and I find myself having to constantly explain to people that the games' mechanics are a lot deeper than just, "Gotta go fast." Of course, Sega's own marketing didn't help me there.

EVO 2013 was important to the game's history.

http://www.ssbwiki.com/EVO_2013#Official_Singles_.28Top_92.29

Look at the top 8! Very few duplicates.