I'm salty... (Rollers)

[GanonPawnch]

Omg D:

I was fighting this terrible and I mean terrible person on for glory just and yet... I couldn't win D: I just could not punish his rolls what so ever. As fast as Mewtwo's down tilt is, he literally, and i mean literally did two rolls through my down tilts ¬_¬. I switched to Ganon, and everytime i went to pivot smash to catch his roll, it still went through him, and when i thought i predicted a roll right, (well i predicted most but still couldn't punish) he'd instead grab me D:

Is it because it's online? I was chasing him all over the place, he couldn't pull off any combos, he just kept wearing me down with rolls and grabs, and random smash attacks. I won him once because i finally hit him in a roll read. I swear, fight me normally and I'll win, fight me like a noob and I'll lose. I've fought far better players, and I mean GOOD players that I've won against. Rolling and noob tactics is my kryptonite, I swear

I'm giving up on Smash forever lol jk. Omg he was so bad though *Puts head between knees*

 

[Godzillionaire]

Most of the time it is because of slight internet lag , or sometimes when you think you punished a roll you where just slightly off

 

[diclonyuus]

I honestly can't say much about Mewtwo, because I don't play him, but for the characters I do play I have certain things I do when people spam rolls that just work out. For example on Marth I'll edge close to them and as soon as I see them roll I react with Dancing Blades, that makes them spot quite soon. Or I'll play Shiek, play a lot of short hop aerials until I get him in a rolling habit, and then I just land and ftilt if he rolls through me or dash grab if he rolls away. Quite often, if this works out, they tend up rolling away twice (having gotten used to me following on their first roll). Other than that, I just camp the hell out of them with needles. DB is a lot easier for me to hit the rolls with, same for the Needles. Try to find out what Mewtwo can do about it.

 

[GanonPawnch]

I honestly can't say much about Mewtwo, because I don't play him, but for the characters I do play I have certain things I do when people spam rolls that just work out. For example on Marth I'll edge close to them and as soon as I see them roll I react with Dancing Blades, that makes them spot quite soon. Or I'll play Shiek, play a lot of short hop aerials until I get him in a rolling habit, and then I just land and ftilt if he rolls through me or dash grab if he rolls away. Quite often, if this works out, they tend up rolling away twice (having gotten used to me following on their first roll). Other than that, I just camp the hell out of them with needles. DB is a lot easier for me to hit the rolls with, same for the Needles. Try to find out what Mewtwo can do about it.

How can you react to a roll? Sometimes I try to predict a roll, but they grab me instead, it's so frustrating. Uhh, I think I need more offline practice, but I have no one to practice with. Seriously, I never think of "reacting" to rolls, I have to predict them because if I'm trying to react to them too much, I'll just get grabbed. I can't be focusing on looking for the roll, i dunno.

I just fought a GOOD meta knight, like man he kicked my ass... but the funny thing is, i got him to 100% and KNEW I could have beaten him. The potential for beating him is for more positive than the potential for beating roll spammers, as stupid as that sounds.

 

[diclonyuus]

Well, with the characters I play, I have attacks that have enough range to outrange a grab (especially Needles, lol). That means that if they wanted to grab me, they would have to take a step towards me. Of course, when I notice that my enemy does that (roll 24/7 then go for grabs), I am lucky enough to be playing characters that have a strong aerial game and a few abilities that are safe on shield (in Shieks case). You are not looking only for the roll, you are looking to find out what your enemy's habits are, and you are there to exploit those habits.

Here's an example as Shiek: I notice my enemy shields a lot. I try to challenge his shield by edging and shorthopping a bit closer, throwing out a few low lag attacks, trying to get a reaction out of him. What are his options: keep shielding, go for a grab, roll towards me, roll away, jump. (Stuff like shieldgrab or aerial are followups to his options)

One option that I have is shorthopping away. None of his options have a strong response to me jumping away, and resetting the game. That way I can see what it is the dude does, so that's what I try to do.

His options, this time in relation to my shorthop away:

- Keep shielding (game resets to neutral with me knowing he is patient on shields. If this situation comes up a lot I'll tomahawk grab him or dash grab him)
- go for a grab (He whiffs since I SHed away, I can hit him during his grab's endlag if it's a slow grab)
- roll towards me (he ends up getting up right where I am, so I am in a perfect position to attack)
- roll away (game resets to neutral with me knowing he is respectful of my aerial game)
- jump (we are now both in the air and we can't shield, roll OR grab. This situation is matchup dependant since against some, I will go offensive here, and against others, I would not)

So I am not looking to read his roll - I am looking for an option that would give me a positive outcome on both a roll and not a roll. Do you understand what I mean? I mean you play very slow characters, so this is kind of where you need to practice, since from my experience you rely a lot more on reads than I do. But I try to put myself in advantageous situations regardless of what the enemy does, since that is what my characters do.

By the way, Ganon's upsmash is really low endlag from what I've seen, and I've seen plenty Ganons decimate rollers with well timed and read downsmashes. I haven't played enough against Mewtwo since I'm practicing a lot of Melee at the moment, but I hope that helped. Do try to ask your question in your character board's QnA thread.

 

[GanonPawnch]

Well, with the characters I play, I have attacks that have enough range to outrange a grab (especially Needles, lol). That means that if they wanted to grab me, they would have to take a step towards me. Of course, when I notice that my enemy does that (roll 24/7 then go for grabs), I am lucky enough to be playing characters that have a strong aerial game and a few abilities that are safe on shield (in Shieks case). You are not looking only for the roll, you are looking to find out what your enemy's habits are, and you are there to exploit those habits.

Here's an example as Shiek: I notice my enemy shields a lot. I try to challenge his shield by edging and shorthopping a bit closer, throwing out a few low lag attacks, trying to get a reaction out of him. What are his options: keep shielding, go for a grab, roll towards me, roll away, jump. (Stuff like shieldgrab or aerial are followups to his options)

One option that I have is shorthopping away. None of his options have a strong response to me jumping away, and resetting the game. That way I can see what it is the dude does, so that's what I try to do.

His options, this time in relation to my shorthop away:

- Keep shielding (game resets to neutral with me knowing he is patient on shields. If this situation comes up a lot I'll tomahawk grab him or dash grab him)
- go for a grab (He whiffs since I SHed away, I can hit him during his grab's endlag if it's a slow grab)
- roll towards me (he ends up getting up right where I am, so I am in a perfect position to attack)
- roll away (game resets to neutral with me knowing he is respectful of my aerial game)
- jump (we are now both in the air and we can't shield, roll OR grab. This situation is matchup dependant since against some, I will go offensive here, and against others, I would not)

So I am not looking to read his roll - I am looking for an option that would give me a positive outcome on both a roll and not a roll. Do you understand what I mean? I mean you play very slow characters, so this is kind of where you need to practice, since from my experience you rely a lot more on reads than I do. But I try to put myself in advantageous situations regardless of what the enemy does, since that is what my characters do.

By the way, Ganon's upsmash is really low endlag from what I've seen, and I've seen plenty Ganons decimate rollers with well timed and read downsmashes. I haven't played enough against Mewtwo since I'm practicing a lot of Melee at the moment, but I hope that helped. Do try to ask your question in your character board's QnA thread.

Hmm, thanks for the advice... I'm really getting demotivated though atm.

 

[diclonyuus]

Why are you getting demotivated? Don't make winning your primary concern. Try making improvements. If need be, go to anthers ladder and play real people instead of FG, you can talk to them afterward and they tend to be mannered and nice! FG is a frustrating hellhole, don't let it drag you down emotionally.

 

[GanonPawnch]

Why are you getting demotivated? Don't make winning your primary concern. Try making improvements. If need be, go to anthers ladder and play real people instead of FG, you can talk to them afterward and they tend to be mannered and nice! FG is a frustrating hellhole, don't let it drag you down emotionally.

Winning isn't my primary goal, I lost a lot to this one person, but we had amazing matches. It's the fact that he was a lot better than this person I couldn't beat, which frustrates me. They say not to roll ( and i obviously agree) but it's rolling that beats me, FG or not, I have more chance against good players than rollers lol it's my weakness D:
And also I feel demotivated because I feel like I've hit a skill ceiling that I cannot pass.

 

[Sean²]

If you're playing Ganondorf, you have one of the best anti-roll moves in the game. When he gets close, grounded Wizard's Foot the hell out the the direction he's rolling. That long hitbox will likely knock him out of the roll and allow you to follow up.

 

[Deleted member]

In my opinion, Mewtwo is a bit odd to play with and against. He's powerful, and almost as floaty as Jigglypuff.
I play fast characters like Captain Falcon a lot so I haven't played Mewtwo a lot, but he's certainly a difficult character to get around.

 

[Mochamico]

Fighting against people who roll a lot can be annoying.
Ground attacks that "dash" forward like Falcon Kick, Wizard's Foot, or PAC-MAN's dash attack are really good in these situations because they cover a lot of ground and go relatively fast while also being in action for a while.

Rolls in general are really hard to punish, that's probably one of my only issues Smash 4.

 

[Deleted member]

Fighting against people who roll a lot can be annoying.
Ground attacks that "dash" forward like Falcon Kick, Wizard's Foot, or PAC-MAN's dash attack are really good in these situations because they cover a lot of ground and go relatively fast while also being in action for a while.

Rolls in general are really hard to punish, that's probably one of my only issues Smash 4.

I do a lot of rolling when I play because I just find it easier to get around the stage without getting hit, and the best options to punish seem to be grabbing where they stop, or using an attack with wide range, like dashes or ranged attacks like Palutena's neutral special.

 

[Mochamico]

I do a lot of rolling when I play because I just find it easier to get around the stage without getting hit, and the best options to punish seem to be grabbing where they stop, or using an attack with wide range, like dashes or ranged attacks like Palutena's neutral special.

Yeah, basically attacks that can hit multiple times, have long range, or stick around have helped, at least when I've encountered rollers.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Wait, since when is rolling looked down upon? Did I miss something?

 

[GanonPawnch]

Wait, since when is rolling looked down upon? Did I miss something?

Rolling is punishable. Everyone can punish rollers except for me, apparently lol.

 

[diclonyuus]

Wait, since when is rolling looked down upon? Did I miss something?

I believe you missed some people on For Glory who have bad connections, giving you half a second of input lag, and using the following strategy:



Particularly picking characters with strong rolling game like Little Mac.

Now you're going to have to tell me what I missed; I don't believe we looked down upon rollers anywhere in this thread, I believe we've had someone ask for advice on how to deal with them, and other people responding with said advice.

 

[GanonPawnch]

Yooooo!! I focused on reading rolls just and owned people! I actually...read...rolls! Run further into grabbing, pivot smashes, pivot tilts! I'm getting better
It's weird how much better you are when you actually THINK about punishing them lol.

 

[MapleWooD]

"Well, maybe it's because you're ugly."

 

[ColietheGoalie]

Now you're going to have to tell me what I missed; I don't believe we looked down upon rollers anywhere in this thread, I believe we've had someone ask for advice on how to deal with them, and other people responding with said advice.

I think it was the association between people who roll with "noob tactics" and "people that should be easily beaten", although in this case the discussion was more about spammers than rolling in general, so perhaps I read too much into it.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

When they run away, I really don't know, but when they roll right at your side use Ganon's Down-Smash. Mewtwo's can't do anything, since it only hits at one side.

 

[dahuterschuter]

I remember M2K and ZeRo deciding on some stream that there's essentially no completely safe way to punish rolls in Sm4sh but it depends on the character.

If you're someone like Fox with the stubby arms and legs and tiny hitboxes it's gonna be a nightmare, but as Dorf you've got your Ganon Train and command grab which cover a good amount of the stage to catch rolls.

A good roll of thumb is just to throw a forward smash behind you at random times.

 

[Bearbuddy4]

It looks like you are getting better with reads, thats the solution really. if you play mewtwo use the neutral B as a close range attack instead incase they roll away. But reading / grabbing read is the best way to deal with it. If you do it right they eventually give up and fight normal or they lose because you keep reading it.

 

[Itty Bit]

Goodness, I have a problem with this as well! It hasn't been as much of an issue as of late for me, but it's still incredibly frustrating when this kind of thing happens.

As a Peach player, I tend to cling onto my downsmash for dear life when people start to use rolling as their only form of mobility. It tends to work pretty well for me, but it's totally screwed up my actual playstyle when I go up against more competent players, and made me more predictable in the process...

I love Smash 4, and I don't wanna sound like a whiny person complaining about the game, but the one thing I've never liked was how freaking safe rolling around like an idiot is in this game. I can understand it being something people do, and it's certainly something that can be easily countered once you get to a certain level, but it shouldn't be this frustrating to deal with.

 

[WwwWario]

Man, I have the same problem. Matchess with roll spammers usually ends up with me taking a guess if they will roll or attack, which gets really boring and frustrating. Seriously, I try to read them, try to predict them, but I can never know if they will roll, shieldgrab, jump or whatever, and doing a mistake there will get me punished. In these matches it usually ends up with me standing still and waiting while he rolls back and fourth....

 

[Turrin]

If you're someone like Fox with the stubby arms and legs and tiny hitboxes it's gonna be a nightmare, but as Dorf you've got your Ganon Train and command grab which cover a good amount of the stage to catch rolls.

Yup, sounds like my life. Fox has his side-B going for him, though, which can catch rolls from pretty much any distance. Ganon's wizard foot is similar to that. If you're Mewtwo, my best suggestions would be to run from them and charge your shadow ball, then let it loose when they roll towards you.

 

[GanonPawnch]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I've gotten a lot better since the first post. When people roll back it's basically a free grab for me now lol, I've been getting pretty good at that. I still have my problem with Lucario player's for odd reasons (not the aura spammy ones, they get their aura spheres reflected lol) I think it's his weird paced roll...no idea lmao. I also have a problem with Yoshi and Fox as they can put a lot of pressure on me, more so when I play Mewtwo than Ganon.

I seen a huge boost in my gameplay in general just yesterday alone and I'm not sure why. I'm getting a lot better at reading basic rollers and my Mewtwo gameplay has just increased overall in general.

Triple back airs off stage with Mewtwo? YES
Double forward air combos? YES lol xD
Something improved yesterday anyway, maybe i got the triforce ;p

 

[Aguki90]

Use tilt is people spam roll too much and become stupidity predictable. Ganon can use its Front tilt to punish almost any roll into a straight punish.

Lucario you have to do perfect shield all the time. Is still hard but I recommend, Perfect shield is use Aura sphere and Jump in the air. Is they do counter and fail, HIT HIM HARD. IS you hit Lucario counter, use perfect shield, is hard but you will see. but is hard to punish lucario after that counter because he freaking fly away but is mini lag can help stay closer to him is you can.

Yoshi and Fox are really aggressive, better go a little more defensive or make them miss the attack to see a opening and attack.

And last but not least, is they become predictable, MIND READ IS THE BEST CHOOSE! that mean predict your foe moves.

 

[Teh Sandwich]

Just start spamming shadow ball... Lol

 

[StrykerX]

I have trouble reading which direction they are gonna roll... whenever I go for a d-smash they seem to roll away instead of behind me...

 

[ChikoLad]

As a Rosalina main I can punish rolls no problem. Down Smash and smart Luma play are amazing.