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I'm new to Shiek. Can someone help me not suck?

Mushroom Scoot

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May 11, 2008
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Yeah.
To be fair I'm kinda going through a rough transition. My main is jiggs, and going from jiggs to ANYONE is a huge change.

No one plays as Shiek. >: And I thrive on playing characters that are rarely chosen, so naturally I'm playing as Shiek now. She's really nerfed though. I mean at first when I saw/heard this I was filled with glee because of her/(his :D) ******** brokeness in melee, but now I feel kinda bad for her.

So far I've gathered that her only way to actually kill people is Upsmash and Sidesmash.

She has no edgeguarding game that I know of. (At least nothing like jiggs- I should stop.)

Her whip seems useless for everything except recovery. Needle storm seems to be only good for annoying people.

Halp?
 

Zankoku

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Sheik's edgeguarding game consists of fairs if you're going for a gimp KO, or bair if you just want to accumulate some free damage. Upsmash, Sidesmash, and Vanish all have decent KO power. Her nair, bair, and uair are able to KO at around 150%-ish. Needles are very good damage and can count toward one attack decay negation. Chain is, as you said, useless. Transforming to Zelda for the final hit (Upsmash, sidesmash, downsmash, fair, bair, uair, Din's Fire can all KO) becomes a necessity in several matchups. Sheik can catch people in a chain of ftilts due to the knockback, and is able to follow it up with an aerial, a grab, an utilt, and occasionally even a smash.

If you have any specific questions, just ask.
 

Tristan_win

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Yeah.
To be fair I'm kinda going through a rough transition. My main is jiggs, and going from jiggs to ANYONE is a huge change.

No one plays as Shiek. >: And I thrive on playing characters that are rarely chosen, so naturally I'm playing as Shiek now. She's really nerfed though. I mean at first when I saw/heard this I was filled with glee because of her/(his :D) ******** brokeness in melee, but now I feel kinda bad for her.

So far I've gathered that her only way to actually kill people is Upsmash and Sidesmash.

She has no edgeguarding game that I know of. (At least nothing like jiggs- I should stop.)

Her whip seems useless for everything except recovery. Needle storm seems to be only good for annoying people.

Halp?
As a Sheik main since Melee I can't help but take most of what you just said very personally and because of this I'm very tempted to not even answer any of your questions, however Sheik needs every user she can get to prove to the community that she doesn't suck and in fact is better then a good number of the characters in the roster.

To begin let me say that in order to get truly good with Sheik the first thing you will have to learn is how and when for each opponent can you get them into a tilt lock. What a tilt lock is in general is the repeating chaining of ftilt into more ftilt before your opponent is able to escape. Before this can happen you should always end it with something big such as an utilt or smash attack.

Sheik ftilt and dtilt both have a sweet stop at the end of the attack that allows you to easier combo your opponent if hit.

Needles this time around are very useless as a gimping tool and are now mainly used for racking up a quick 16 damage or to force your opponent to come to you if possible. They also no longer have priority so they can't cancel projectiles; however they can interrupt any attack including Meta knight tornado.

Sheik best smash attack as far as killing wise is the upsmash as if you hit someone with the sweet stop where the hand touch you can kill someone off the top of the screen with 90 damage. It is advice to learn how to do the dash cancel upsmash as it's a great approach method that's hard to shield grab and is great for surprising campers or people in general.

The down smash though might not be as powerful as the upsmash but is what you will most likely be using the most as it's almost impossible to side step and does good damage and knock back.

The Fsmash does have its uses but is fairly complex, to learn more about it read my thread "Thoughts and Results on Sheik forward smash testing"

Sheik ^B is now a killing move and can be used offensively if your daring enough on platforms levels such as battle field, it also has a special feature that if you free fall for a fix amount of time you can land with no lag or the normal landing animation.
To learn more on this check my threads
^B information
and
More ^B information ^-^

Sheik best approaches are most likely the dash cancel up smash and retreating fairs but she has many other lesser options.

Sheik grab game is one of the only grabs in the game that can reliable set people up to follow up in all throwing directions, however because of Brawl physicals it’s best to chase them in the air with a fair to make them air dodge and then follow it up with either a Nair or Bair with fast falling.

..Oh and it's a good idea to check Ankoku guide.
 

Mushroom Scoot

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First Two Posters: Noted.

Interesting. Although my honor will much prohibit me from changing into Zelda just for kills. I'd stick with Shiek the entire match through.

Also, Tristan_win, why is Shiek better than other characters in the roster. I'm curiousesesesseeses.
 

Zankoku

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Why would "honor" prevent you from transforming? Does this "honor" also dictate you can only use one of the Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon in a game?
 

Tristan_win

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Don't go down the "honor" path I did and my game is still trying to recover from it

It's just a fact that transforming into Zelda will make some matches a lot easier then if you stay Sheik. It's just something you have to get use to if you really want to fight on a higher level. Use Sheik to get your enemies to like 100 damage or so before knocking them away then quickly transform into Zelda which at that percentage on the lighter cast she can one hit easily with a lot of her attacks.

Anyways back to your question I think Sheik is better because she can do true constant hit combos on anyone and because can rack up damage insanely fast if given the opportunity (the tier list is made up on tournament standings and character potential). Her attack link into each other very well and she has a lot of great moves that aren’t situational. This causes her to be very flexible when facing many different fighting styles but also allows the users to have an own unique style. Unlike Snake players who seemly have like two different variations in style with various levels of degree.

She also has a great offence/defense game with a grab that actually has a use.

Her only flaw is that she can’t kill which is why turning into Zelda is critical on those matches where it’s nearly impossible to gimp your opponent.

Example: Meta Knight, enough said.
 

Agent Snop

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i just started to main zelda and sheik i think they made sheik with less ko moves because she can build up damage so fast that in no time your opponent life well be around 150%
 

Tristan_win

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i just started to main zelda and sheik i think they made sheik with less ko moves because she can build up damage so fast that in no time your opponent life well be around 150%
That's a great theory but can you explain to me why Meta Knight is balanced? -_-

~ I'm not expecting you to actually answer since he's not balanced.
 

Greenpoe

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Since your new to Sheik, you might not know this: Dash grab! Learn the distance that standing to dashgrab will grab at. Since Sheik's dash grab boosts her forward, you can grab a lot! I usually get at least 3-5 grabs per stock. =)
 

imdavid

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Play play play! That's my tip to not suck. Play until your friends tell you that you have no life. Come back and then ask for help once you have accomplished that and you still have problems xD
 

Tristan_win

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hmm, Zelda is a lot harder for me to give advise on since she pretty much "you see what you get"

Nothing really surprising about her and nothing to really learn as far as what part of a attack to hit someone with beside the
Fair ~ sweet spot on foot but you have to hit them with it as the attack comes out
Bair ~ sweet spot on foot but you have to hit them with it as the attack comes out
Dair ~ sweet spot on foot but you have to hit them with it as the attack comes out
Dtilt ~ at the bottom part of her feet if hit it can spike people and cause tripping pretty often.

That’s about as far as knowing about Zelda goes beside the neutral B will lunch your opponent the way your facing, dim fire will always shoot people upward, ^B into the ground will make you go half the distance if you ^B normally left or right, and you can make dim fire explode after being hit…that’s it.
 

Zankoku

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dtilt can either trip into a dsmash setup or launch the opponent into an usmash setup. utilt kills.
 

sFoster

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If your main is sheik you don't need to know that much about Zelda..
Bascially what you need to know is when USmash will kill a character, and this way you can be more confidant in your transformations.

Don't be too aggressive when you switch to Zelda for the kill, that will become predictable also being aggresive is not Zelda's strong point.

Even if they are in the kill zone, use dins fire to make them come to you, and then kill them.
 

stealth3654

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Another think I would like to add to transforming into zelda is that when ever you transform, all you moves become replenished. For example... You use shiek to build up damage. While you attack your enemies, you moves become weaker. Then when you switch to zelda, her moves will be as strong as when you just start the match. After you kill your opponent and switch back to shiek, Shiek's moves will also be replenished. Very useful.
 

Agent Snop

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:)
If your main is sheik you don't need to know that much about Zelda..
Bascially what you need to know is when USmash will kill a character, and this way you can be more confidant in your transformations.

Don't be too aggressive when you switch to Zelda for the kill, that will become predictable also being aggresive is not Zelda's strong point.

Even if they are in the kill zone, use dins fire to make them come to you, and then kill them.
well sheik is great but sheik and zelda are better put together
 

Mushroom Scoot

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Sigh
It looks like Shiek is actually going to be really hard to use properly.
This is really ironic. Jiggs is higher tier than Shiek any way I look at it. Even without the rose tinted glasses.
 

imdavid

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i thought jiggs was harder to use than sheik... all sheik has to do is spam dash attacks, down grabs, and down smashes and she can win high places in tournaments.
 

FreakingMethodiC

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Ehh? Never be afraid to switch to zelda for the kill. Just make sure you know how to kill with zelda first (not a very hard thing if you know what you're doing).

I picked up Shiek fairly recently upon request from some freinds. Found out i enjoy playing the character and should deserve some more credit. She may not be the best character in the game. But the fact she's tied to another character as well gives her a huge advantage when you're having trouble.

I originally played zelda and played shiek for some fun but it's been pretty prevelant that my shiek is better then my zelda (i'm a bad camper). This winds up pretty good for me cus you can rack up some nice damage, and switch for a KO if you can't handle it with shiek (usually U-smash, D-smash and recovery gimping works) but it's nice to fall back on.

Reason i'm starting to play so well with shiek is that i main Marth and i find alot of similarities. Ofcourse shiek is helluva lot more toned down then marth, but the fact is like marth...

Gimping recoveries is similar, ground approach is similar. For the most part you should be walking and not dashing... becuase she is a fast walker with tons of options from walking rather then running. And while she doesn't have double Fair and the range she has some similar approaches from the air.

Basically this is why i play or starting to pick her up now, she's closer so some of my more liked characters.

~On a side note, lotta of people posted some good information in here... use it well.

AND WELCLOME TO THE SHIEK FORUMS! :psycho:
 

AnAardvark

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I'm not disagreeing with anybody here, but I, personally, use Sheik's Needle Storm to throw off an opponent. Say, for example, you're fighting a Sonic, and he's Spin Dashing at you, a simple B-B will knock him out and allow you to follow up. Though of course, it's better if you have a charged set of Needle Storm. Also, her Needle Storm gives you something to do instead of taunting. :p

Also, I haven't mastered this yet, but I find it more efficient when going for an opponent on the ground to dash and U-Smash him or her, instead of just regular dash attacking him or her. For me, it's sort of hard to remember in the midst of a game, but I think it's really cool, since she slides a little and the lag time for both the neutral dash attack and the dash and U-Smash are the same, only the damage and the attack radius differs.

Another technique I've found useful is, like previously mentioned by others, F-Tilting constantly until they're only one F-Tilt away from freedom. That's when I usually use U-Smash or D-Smash.

Personally, I don't use Zelda at all, because I feel it's too risky to transform in the midst of a game, but I don't want to give you the wrong idea, because I'm nowhere close to being a pro, and I hear many pros will transform to Zelda for an easy KO. If you DO transform into Zelda, I suggest that you at least get your opponent(s) to 100% damage with Sheik first.

I hope this information helps you, and maybe we can Brawl sometime. I'm sort of a newbie to Sheik also. Everything I said was observed through my gameplay, but I'm not a pro or anything. I just find it easier to use the tactics mentioned above.
 
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