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Even if QD reverse WD is unsafe you can just QD reverse SH and grab ledge like that. If you're standing facing the ledge you can run off and do a quick QD towards the ledge.
I usually opt for QD RAR short-hop instead of QD RAR wavedash, since it covers more distance. It's also good because you can either grab the edge or feint and drop down low with a BAir or DAir instead.
I've been wanting to incorporate more fthrow QD reverse bair into my gameplay what percents does that work at? And are you just talking about uthrow to bair? I know that works at low percents on a lot of characters.
How is that effective? It seems like the time it takes to actually fall to the ground, albeit minimal, is too much time to not get punished.
I was talking about reverse BAir, in which you hit the opponent with the area around Ike's face; it works pretty well against people who DI away on QD attack and NAir at mid %s. You can do something similar out of UThrow at low %s, although I think it might be more profitable to use UAir instead. As for FThrow -> QD -> RAR BAir, it works best on floatier characters at mid to high %s but it shouldn't work if they DI properly. You can try mixing up the opponent's DI by using BThrow and DThrow, but in general, it's hard to trick the opponent if they always DI the FThrow away and down because all of Ike's other throws are relatively easy to react to.
I'll post a video about it sometime this week, but it's (very) vaguely similar to how Falco drops down below the stage when edgehopping lasers; you want to let go of the edge and drop low enough such that when you jump and QD, you'll start out in the air but then land on the stage while moving forward, thus opening up grounded QD options. I have yet to actually try it out on an actual opponent, but it seems like it'd be good as a mix-up once in a while since you can either QD attack (which forces the opponent to shield or stand away from the edge) or wavedash onto the very edge of the stage after you land.
Wow that nair/QD attack to bair to fair is amazing.
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If you're close enough to the stage such that you can B-reverse Eruption to get back and the opponent is close enough to the edge, it sounds like you might be able to hit them with BAir immediately after the wall-jump, which is faster than Eruption. It'd be even better if you still have your double-jump, since you'd be able to jump onto the stage while BAir'ing. I'm not sure how practical B-reverse Eruption would be though, since if you mess up you die and if you do it properly, it's easy to punish if you whiff and the reward of hitting the opponent might result in you taking some damage.Also I was wondering your opinion on this: I sometimes do QD -> wall jump -> B-reverse Eruption along with other techniques while arriving back on stage and use it as a mix-up option with appropriate reads. One somewhat useful application of this was against a Lucas player. The Lucas player down smashed with the additional Lucas power charge. There were two occurrences of the down smash with hit boxes one after the other with the charge and the Eruption armor protected me from both occurrences of the attack. The result was awesome but I believe that I nevertheless received the damage (no knockback) so I suppose the trade off wasn't worth it. However this is just an idea simulator on the use and I would like replies
Yeah I figured. I use bair more often for the reason that it is faster and less punishable. I like trying out new ideas though
Haven't thought of following up the dair with a nair, cool!
I have done it very few times but I have seen Metroid1117 do it several times in a few videos. It covers a lot of below stage recovery attempts and can be great as an edge-guard option just be mindful as always
Ya it doesn't always work. You have to read the opponent well otherwise you just give up stage control and they can edgeguard you.
I'd prefer BAir, since NAir tends to send opponent's upward. It's really good if you set it up by QD RAR'ing to the edge, since you can either go for the edgehog if they try to sweetspot or DAir and fastfall on top of them.
Beyond that you can just do an aerial instead of grabbin it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s5-Rf6Em-Y&index=10&list=PLovBMkMLex7xhb2XjvWL1l40KnxhgwIrN
I'm pretty sure it's a meteor smash along with his neutral B. That's why I don't use it.
It's a spike at the hilt and a meteor at the blade. You have to hit with the bottom part so it requires some timing. It is good against predictable recoveries and recoveries that have a tendency to go a little above the ledge like the Mario Brothers, Sonic, Falcon, Spacies going straight up, etc..
I had no idea! That's pretty cool. I need to try it out.
I didn't notice you brought up the neutral special too. My previous post was about the dtilt only. Eruption is a pike at the tip and you have to hit with just the tip. The rest of eruption sends opponents up.