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Ike Impressions from Playing (Full Move Impressions)

MastaX

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
6
Well, since I just recently got the Japaneses version of Brawl, and have been playing around with Ike quite a lot (he's the man), I thought I'd post my thoughts, concerns, and general opinion of Ike's play style in the smash forums.

So far, Ike is an excellent character to play with. He's slow, but not prohibitively slow, even without the ability to L-Cancel any aerials in Brawl. He's insanely strong...I've killed characters with every single move he has except his Up+b and counter (His jab can seriously kill at 150%+). And Ike is by no means devoid of any quick moves, his back air and side+b are very quick. His range is excellent, and his priority is also extremely good, especially when coupled with his long sword range. So far I've been mostly playing against Meta Knight, Zero Suit Samus, Falcon, Lucario(sp?), and the very occasional Fox/Dedede.

Against these characters Ike actually holds his own pretty well, and is seeming to do very well against Meta Knight because of his longer range and pure destructive power.
Meta Knight will combo me and what not but...Ike kills him hard. I don't want to get too much into character match ups because there is much to be learned yet from them for me, so I will try to update as I learn more about specific matchups. Now for Ike's moves.

Ground Moves

Neutral+A (hold) - Holding A makes Ike jab repeatedly, has short range and does small amounts of damage. Not useful at all really.

Neutral+A(3 A's) - Pressing A 3 times in a row brings Ike into an amazing jab combo where hit punches, kicks, and then slashes the opponent. All hits are guaranteed once one connects, and its very fast (especially for Ike). This combo looks to be pretty central to Ike's game, as its fast, can disrupt the enemy, and does 14-15% damage when all hits connect. Awesome move, KO possibility at 150+ generally.

Side+A - This move has decent startup, decent lag after its completion, and good knockback/damage. It is situationally useful, because of its lag and can be punished without too much hassle. It can be used as the 3rd swing in the jab combo, although even at low percentages opponents can D.I. away from it (If they aren't paying attention they will get hit). Moderately useful move overall.

Down+A - Not too useful I.M.O., it is very slow and very easily dodged. It doesn't reach below the edge as far as I can tell in terms of edge guarding, but it does spike/meteor people downwards if they hang on the ledge past their invulnerability frames.

Up+A - Awesome tilt, its range is only in front of Ike, has decent speed, some actual possible combo ability at low percentages (sets up for a neutral air usually), and is a very good K.O. move. Good tilt overall, probably Ike's best tilt.

Side Smash - Wow. This smash is slow as hell but dear god if it hits someone, they feel it. Its a KO move at 50%+ generally, but it has an extremely slow windup time and good lag after it. I don't generally use this much because of its horrible lag, but if you can catch someone off guard with it or get lucky, they are pretty much dead. Be prepared for punishment though.

Up Smash - Great smash, also slow like all of Ike's moves, but its useful because of the ability to dash into up smashes in Brawl. I wouldn't spam this smash at all because of its speed issue, but if someone is coming from above or on a ledge above you, it definitely makes sense to use this move. Very good K.O. ability and range. (If you can hit someone on the ground who is shielding it generally pushes them far back and so far I haven't been punished for using this smash, but I'm not sure if that will always happen yet).

Down Smash - Ike's quickest smash, it covers good ground below Ike, and does decent damage/knockback. I haven't been able to use this smash much yet, I'll report more on it when I can more fully determine its usefulness.

Aerials

Neutral Air - Good god, his neutral air is amazing. It covers from in front of Ike to behind him, and it has good speed considering it's Ike here. Not only that, the true beauty of the neutral air is that upon landing before completion (i.e. short hop fast falling (which is good for Ike)), there is almost zero lag from the nair, and its almost impossible to stop a jab combo after a nair. Spam this for distancing and awesome.

Forward Air - Good overall aerial, although I wouldn't necessarily approach with this over a nair, because it has sizable lag when landing, leading to punishment. Its forward range is very impressive, and it has good K.O. ability. Definitely a good aerial to use. Don't spam it.

Back Air - LOL back air. This thing is insanely fast, has good range behind Ike, and great killing power. Its especially awesome when you shield an attack, then shield jump into back air and WTFpwn someone who isn't freaking Meta Knight(good god he's too short to hit). Great killing move, good range and amazing speed. A must use killing move.

Down Air - Situationally useful aerial, it doesn't last too long, has decent killing power, is a meteor (but seriously don't even try to edgeguard), and can counter some up airs if you are getting juggled. Not a bad aerial, but not a great one either.

Special Moves

B - Ike creates an explosion by smashing his sword into the ground, and this move is generally useful. It's pretty situational, but since it can be used in mid-air and hits above, slightly behind, and in front of Ike, it's good despite it being slow. Also has some invulnerability frames in it.

Side B - Spam this move. Spam it into forever. It's a charging(hold B) dash attack, by the way. Not only is it a good killing move, a good recovery move, its also a great general approach to someone. There is no apparent lag from dashing forward(as long as you don't hit the person's shield), so you can immediately jab, grab, or tilt someone out of it. It can be used in so many different ways, and I primarily use it to mind game recoveries (when I'm high up) and close distance to projectile whores. Awesome Awesome Awesome.

Up B - Great recovery move, especially when side b isn't an option. Ike becomes a tank for many frames, taking damage but not caring. Going off the ledge then using it to get back up onto the stage is also really useful, because it can stun the opponent who is trying to edge guard you. I also got 23% damage on Meta Knight doing this when he was trying to edge guard me. Poor Meta.

Down B - Counter, pretty useless move. Normally I'd like counter, but now in addition to Roy timing, it also has to be pre-emptive, meaning I can't hit counter as I'm getting hit. It has to be slightly before I get hit now. It's stupid, but sometimes useful, just be prepared for punishment.

Ike overall is shaping up to be a monster. He's heavy, hard hitting, and has good ways to approach a variety of characters. I'm not one to call any character into a tier position, but I'd say barring some sort of advanced technique discovery, Ike should be able to be played pretty competitively. Just make sure to use caution, distancing, and smart approaches. Ike is all about making hits connect, 'cause all his hits can kill.
 

/~Dogma~\

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,202
this is great i thx u on ur opinion
glad ur enjoying ike and pwning some MK

if u can post some vids:)
 

Zareidriel

zuh-RAY-dree-ole
Joined
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Zareidriei
I mostly agree, except here's my opinion on some things:

I think USmash is one of his best attacks, it's hard to punish, hits both sides quickly, and KOs at low percents. And it's not too slow.

I don't like the forward tilt; IMHO, there are better attacks with the same lag.

Counter is very useful, as it can KO pretty easily and, when used correctly, is hard to, well, counter. xD It can be a very powerful attack.
 

/~Dogma~\

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,202
usmash is godly it covers ike all around its faster then fsmash

^^^^^^ftilt (same opinion) d tilt is faster and has SAF
 

Fizz-sama

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
849
Location
Memphis, TN
Great thread dude. Could you test something out though? Dealing with jab-canceling, can you see if you can A -> cancel -> dsmash / A-A -> cancel ->dsmash and variants to replace the dsmash such as grab, utilt, eruption(at high percentages)?

I really loved reading about the bair. One of the main things I was thinking of is using it against the space animals. In Melee, the spacies fsmash would usually go past you and they'd end up behind you(argh...or so I think, it's really been a while since I've played competitive Melee). The bair seems like an almost perfect way to punish a spacie in Brawl that's fsmashed your shield and gotten' behind you, only to regret it. Again, I can't say this 100% since I don't own the game at the moment, so...
 

MastaX

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
6
I mostly agree, except here's my opinion on some things:

I think USmash is one of his best attacks, it's hard to punish, hits both sides quickly, and KOs at low percents. And it's not too slow.

I don't like the forward tilt; IMHO, there are better attacks with the same lag.

Counter is very useful, as it can KO pretty easily and, when used correctly, is hard to, well, counter. xD It can be a very powerful attack.
Up smash is no doubt really good. I'm just having problems actually connecting with people, as it is pretty obvious when its coming out, so they just hang back. When they are coming from above they simply air dodge or just ground dodge if they are on a platform. This isn't to say that I never hit...I do...it's just not as much as I would like.

F tilt is actually good, and I've come to like it the more I use it. It's lag is decent, but there are definitely opportunities that present themselves in matches where you have a good shot of landing an f tilt without being punished too hard, and it has KO ability at 90%(give or take). This is not a spammable move at all and should be used with caution, especially against ranged chars like zero suit, pit, samus, whatever. Still a useful move though.

Counter...I'm just not good with it lol. I find the timing to be more annoying than ever for Ike and well, I'd rather just air dodge or do some other maneuver to counter/get out of the way.

Working on getting recording equipment.

usmash is godly it covers ike all around its faster then fsmash

^^^^^^ftilt (same opinion) d tilt is faster and has SAF
F tilt is better than down tilt in most situations. Its roughly the same speed(dtilt is seriously a fraction of a second faster and doesn't really matter), the time to go to your next attack between the two is pretty much the same, and f tilt can well, hit people who aren't JUST on the ground. Its a more robust move, and its pretty much the same speed. Also has longer range by a short bit. I pretty much never use down tilt, I'd rather down smash if I was even going to hit at the ground. I was told SAF has something to do with opening your next attack, canceling some sort of lag, but I saw no such thing. But if SAF means something else lemme know and i'll test it.

Great thread dude. Could you test something out though? Dealing with jab-canceling, can you see if you can A -> cancel -> dsmash / A-A -> cancel ->dsmash and variants to replace the dsmash such as grab, utilt, eruption(at high percentages)?
This is actually one of the things if been experimenting a lot with. I've been trying getting f tilts at the end of something like A, A (works if your opponent doesn't DI correctly, but is never a guarantee), and other combos. Ill definitely give those combos a shot with some other I've been thinking of. I'll post with results later.
 

/~Dogma~\

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,202
Super
Armour
Frames
u take DMG but no flinch

canceling lag maybe IASA

and fizz sama didnt tell u how to jab cancel..lol

AA>R> ANY MOVE?

but u quickly shield after first or 2 A atk here are some variations

AA>R>GRAB
AA>R>FTILT
AA>R>ROLL
AA>R>SIDESTEP

now ones that id like to work

AA>R>SIDEB
AA>R>B
 

Fizz-sama

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
849
Location
Memphis, TN
This is actually one of the things if been experimenting a lot with. I've been trying getting f tilts at the end of something like A, A (works if your opponent doesn't DI correctly, but is never a guarantee), and other combos. Ill definitely give those combos a shot with some other I've been thinking of. I'll post with results later.
Thanks man. I was curious also about the ftilt, as in one match I actually saw him use it and it connected before Fox's fsmash. I can't exactly remember if Ike started his ftilt first(seems more than likely), but I dunno.
 

AlphaDragoon2002

Smash Ace
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Aug 5, 2002
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Phoenix, AZ
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AlphaDragoon02
Great info. I actually got to play Brawl today and rep the Ikester myself, and I pretty much agree with everything said. I did find the Up Smash to be awesome though, didn't even think about the fact that you can dash into it, think I'll try that tomorrow. I got the Counter off so many times when I would pop someone with an AAA combo, Tilt or Smash and they'd try to fly back towards me and use an air.

Quick Draw is retardedly good. Holy crap. Most of the time you can nail them for free and if you don't you pretty much have no lag (unless it hits and they block). Back Air is straight hax, I was able to use that moonwalk technique found by dmbrandon and his crew to nail Back Airs repeatedly. Overall I was extremely happy with Ike, and can't wait to play him again.
 

AlphaDragoon2002

Smash Ace
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Messages
925
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Phoenix, AZ
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AlphaDragoon02
If he's got Roy timing on his counter, does that mean he deals Roy damage with it?
The Counter felt like Marth length to me. As for damage and knockback, it's fixed like Marth's but pushes a lot further back than his did in Melee. It does 13% damage, BTW.
 

Fizz-sama

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
849
Location
Memphis, TN
Did you try a move right after a missed Quick Draw? If so, which move(s), and how smooth was the transition? (I'm beginning to have a reputation for wording things ****tily, so sorry.)
 

/~Dogma~\

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,202
lol....^^^^^^

yeah learning the exact distance of quick draw uncharge so u know when ull hit them or not is important in atking fast and approachin.....along with grand viper
 

MastaX

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
6
@Roith

So far I haven't gotten any jab-canceling combos going, but I'm still working on improving my timing, since that was in all reality the issue. However I don't expect a jab-canceled B to work because of the startup time involved, but like I said I'm still working on it so I'll try to get some better results later. (Sorry for the delayed post).

@Fizz

Yea there is virtually no lag after a missed Side B...I've found myself using so many attacks out of it and just killing people, although my favorite move out of it is the jab combo, cause its pretty much a free guaranteed 15% if you miss just short of your opponent...which should happen if you are aiming to miss early. Jab combo is so insane. So insane.

And yea I forgot Uair ><, Uair is pretty awesome. High damage and knockback, Ike twirls his sword above his head so the hitbox can be a bit tricky but it's easy to get used to. It's a useable aerial although dash -> Up smash may be a better option in most situations if your opponent is coming down from above you. Short hop fast falling up air seems to leave a small hit box in front of Ike's head, so it's annoyingly hard to hit with. Fine aerial with me though, can occasionally get a hit in after an attack that sends them up. KOs at about 110-120 if I remember correctly, sooner on lighter chars.
 

Eli_Manning

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
6
Great thread MastaX. After playing a *** version I was quite happy overall with Ike. In Melee I always went for the speed Chars but as I learn more Advance techniques I find chars like Ike ideal.

As It was my 1st time playing I found myself spamming with moves Roith mentioned like AA->roll->AA and being able to get opp to over 100% very quickly which was great.

I was a bit dissapointed with his FS over Marths FS, skilled players I found could easily come in and steal the kill if the last attack doesnt send them flying.

Uair when he throws the sword up catches it and slams it down is sick.
 

/~Dogma~\

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,202
@ mastax
mmk.... if u finally decide its not an AT or u dont see any "special or different" ill ask Lee for confirmation

@ eli manning
thxs for yet another impression...so ike racked up dmg quite fast....this gets better everyday...thxs
 

Eli_Manning

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
6
I only got about 20mins Gameplay though and it was while before I learnt about RARing/Moonwalking/Grand viper etc..

I forgot to mention I clean killed sonic (who my friend was using) at 64% with AA->Roll behind->Smash. thats the lowest i've probably ever killed anyone on any SS game without Items. wasn't sure if this had something to do with settings as it was player vs player no CP's included.

I think this slowness associated with Ike isn't that much of a detriment. I noticed alot of the newbs at the gaming store were quick to choose outright fast characters like sonic and such chars were really reckless, lacked overall power meaning they take even longer to do up to 100%+ and were the ones most like to be easily killable at <90%
 

MastaX

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
6
Alright, so so far with jab-canceling I haven't found anything that is guaranteed. I'm not saying that AA shield -> roll, move, or whatever may not be useful though, it can be still used a sort of mind game to catch your opponent. However, from my testing, jab, shield, then starting another movement with Ike is just too laggy to be a guarantee. Actually, it may be a guarantee against a Bowser/Ganon kinda char, but meh. Ganon and Bowser, not worth testing against IMHO. AAA ftw.
 

/~Dogma~\

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,202
well check the AT's stickied thread jab cancel is in u press R in the last few frames of the first or 2 jab

just check the thread
 

MastaX

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
6
I checked the thread, and I can do whats talked about, its just that I have not found a completely guaranteed combo out of jab-canceling(2 A's). All moves can be DIed/dodge away from, at least by characters like Zero Suit, Falcon, Lucario, Samus, and Meta. I'm not at all saying jab-canceling is bad though, because it can still be used for mind games/quick cancels of jab combos.

Also I haven't spent much time jab-canceling the first jab, which I have hopes for actually. Seems like it could lead to something more interesting.

On a side note, **** Lucario with a cinderblock. Lucario is turning out to be a major pain in the *** for Ike, only because spamming the B move on stages like final D can make approaching Lucario very difficult. So far I'm still winning the majority of matches against Lucario, but definitely the biggest pain I've dealt with. Scares me to think what bull**** Pit may pull with his bow.
 

GenG

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
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Pit needs a very tricky approach. Just roll between the arrows or jump over them. At close range be careful, because Pit can roll behind you and smash, use the annoying B+forward to rack damage or grab. Just space your fairs and AAA at close range.
 

/~Dogma~\

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
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hhhmmmm.......i dont have a right to say anything now but ill follow and listen and TRY to help
 

Dustero

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
435
Sounds good, but I prefer fast characters, even if their attacks are weak because I can a lot of damage for dodgeing and the getting in a few hits.
 

WhiteOblv

Smash Ace
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fountain of dreamz
Havent faced a pit quite yet, but i can tell it wont be as easy as others. Ikes jab combo is very good for spacing, and killing if you cant land a hit with anything else.

Jus found out 2day that...dash cancel usmashes ****, and usmash outta shield *****. Also Short hop 2 airdodge to get behind opp. then fsmash works sometimes. His dsmash also comes out kinda fast.


p.s. fast characters dont **** ike as much as you would think.
 

/~Dogma~\

Smash Lord
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Oct 23, 2007
Messages
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thxs white that was enlightening and the first timr i heard someone use those for ike

if u could id luv to see a skilled ike vid u got anthing that could do that?
 

MastaX

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
6
Havent faced a pit quite yet, but i can tell it wont be as easy as others. Ikes jab combo is very good for spacing, and killing if you cant land a hit with anything else.

Jus found out 2day that...dash cancel usmashes ****, and usmash outta shield *****. Also Short hop 2 airdodge to get behind opp. then fsmash works sometimes. His dsmash also comes out kinda fast.


p.s. fast characters dont **** ike as much as you would think.
I haven't had problems with fast characters, its quick characters with spammable ranged attacks. Like mentioned before by other people, I did basically just roll and jump over everything and tried to space myself out in order to attack, I did all of what you mentioned above except the air dodge, and I did win most of the time. Was just noting how it seems like the challenge for Ike will be against those spam range chars that are quick. However, I honestly don't expect that air dodge tactic to work unless my opponent dedicates to a forward smash or something more laggy than air dodge, but I'll be testing that out because it does sound interesting to air dodge and then set up another combo.

Also, I'm ordering video capture hardware so hopefully by early next week I can post some videos and such.
 

/~Dogma~\

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
1,202
great im looking forward to it do u have a youtube aaccount if so post it here so i can favorite it
 
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