Ike and the B Reversal

[RedZeshin]

I dunno if anybody here has been to the tactical discussion forum, but there's been a new AT discovered called "B reversal" (which is completely different from turnaround b). Basically, it allows you to turn around and use any of your B attacks in the opposite direction that you're running in. So basically, if somebody's chasing you and you're running away, you can automatically turn around in the middle of your dash and fire them up with Eruption. This tech works in the air and on the ground. You can read about how to use the B Reversal in the tactical forum. Kudos to Jewdo for finding this awesome tech!

HERE'S TEH LINK:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155369

AN AWESOME VIDEO BY SHUKUDAI (he's done his "homework" LOL thanx man) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4jLW9ZxPR4

For Ike, I think it's most useful on his QuickDraw. You can be chased by somebody on the ground and suddenly flip around and lay sum smackdown! It can also be used for spacing out and connecting quickly into Grand Vipers when you're standing close to your opponent. Or heck, even mindgaming Also, it can allow you to do last minute spacing on your eruptions if you're in the air. Pretty cool tech altogether, I think it opens a lot of interesting possibilities for Ike tactics hehehe

 

[spideybry]

cool, never really tried this before, nice technique

 

[Veil2222]

You can even do this with most anyone's neutral B. I fail to see how this helps Ike's side+b though, since it's a directions based dash anyway. Is there some sort of advantage for Ike to input a turaround b rather than just a normal side B in the opposite direction he's facing?

 

[DashNoob]

SA frames from eruption are an advantage over just a backwards sideb

 

[RedZeshin]

This is helpful for Ike's side+b in that it removes the lag from turning around and entering side+b. Here's the difference:

Normal Situation: You run away from enemy. You try to turn around, and Ike takes his time moving about in his turn animation until he's facing the enemy. You enter side+b, and dash-slash towards your opponent.

With side+b Reversal: You run away from enemy. You automatically do your side+b in the opposite direction towards your opponent.

So yeah, I think it might be useful for quickly spacing a Grand Viper. Say you're standing next to your enemy, and decide you wanna do a Grand Viper. You just run away to the proper spacing, and then do your side+b reversal to go straight into a Grand Viper.

Come to think of it, you can even use it to psyche your opponent out. Just run towards your opponent, and then suddenly side+b reversal in the opposite direction.

 

[Cless]

Good job discovering something that's been in the game since smash 64.

 

[RedZeshin]

Good job discovering something that's been in the game since smash 64.

Are u a troll...? If so, quanosian high five dude! Ur the first person to troll a post of mine, which is cool, hey, to each his own

BUT.... well if you're not a troll, what are u talking about man? I've been playing since Smash 64 came out in '99. That's like almost a decade of smashing. And this, this is definitely a new technique unique to Brawl. You must've misread/misunderstood what I wrote, or something.

Annnnd hey, I don't claim credit for discovering this either hehe . Didn't you read, I said it's from the tactical forum. Maybe my explanation isn't as good, if not try over there instead.

 

[JoeTang]

Then, while still holding the control stick to dash, you press B to start the dash/slash attack.

Wait... Quick Draw?
How about instead of giving vague, crappy, inaccurate descriptions of the technique yourself, you post a link to the thread next time?
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155369
That is nothing like what you describe. What you're describing doesn't even seem to involve the B button. You keep saying you can dash/slash attack. What the hell does that even mean?

, while still holding the control stick to dash, you press B to start the dash/slash attack.

What you describe is impossible. You can't perform a Neutral B while holding the Control Stick in any direction. I highly suggest you learn how to perform the technique yourself before you go make crappy threads explaining it to other people.

 

[Cless]

Hmm, I did misread what you wrote a bit. I thought you were just talking about in the air. Anyway, it's just taking advantage of the turn around physics in Brawl if I'm reading it correctly.

 

[Miller]

There is no lag when you turn around normally.
GTFO the internets

 

[Shukudai]

Guys! Stop arguing!

To clear up the confusion, here's one i prepared earlier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4jLW9ZxPR4

1. Note the slide on his neutral B when it's B-reversed on the ground.
2. Note the complete swap in horizontal momentum when it's B-reversed in the air.
3. Now fire up your copy of brawl, and note that when you try to go from a dash straight into a side B going in the opposite direction WITHOUT USING THE B-REVERSAL TECHNIQUE, you just stop running and turn around to run in the opposite direction.

It's not about taking advantage of the turnaround physics in brawl, it seems to be a new system that allows you to change the orientation of your B moves provided you press your control stick in the direction you want it to go in, during the very early frames of the B move's animation.

Couple this with the fact that you're allowed to do forward-facing B-moves from a dash, and you have yourselves a system exploit. Not a glitch (well, possibly a glitch, look at Ganondorf's - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tES5AX_WKqc that looks bigtime glitchy )

Hope that answers a few questions.

 

[RedZeshin]

Wait... Quick Draw?
How about instead of giving vague, crappy, inaccurate descriptions of the technique yourself, you post a link to the thread next time?
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=155369
That is nothing like what you describe. What you're describing doesn't even seem to involve the B button. You keep saying you can dash/slash attack. What the hell does that even mean?

What you describe is impossible. You can't perform a Neutral B while holding the Control Stick in any direction. I highly suggest you learn how to perform the technique yourself before you go make crappy threads explaining it to other people.

LOL Dude, coooooool ur jets it's all in good spirits man! I posted this because, well I knew some people only lurked around certain forums, and the b-reversal would be a useful technique for ike mainers. I'll put a link to the forum in the main part of the thread. Sorry if my explanation ain't so hot. But hey man, thanks for your honest appraisal, it'll help this thread to become more useful to everybody, that's what it's all about right

And yeah, you're right, I'm talking about the QuickDraw. What I'm trying to say (pretty clumsily) is that if you start dashing and press the b button (while still holding the control stick in the direction of your dash) you'll start up the animation for a QuickDraw. Then if you slam the control stick in the opposite direction you'll QuickDraw in the opposite direction. It's all written funky because I was trying to be as descriptive as possible, since I can't put up videos or nothin'. Looks like I wound up confusing people instead hehehe

Shukudai's video pretty much explain's it best. Go watch that to see kiddos! Hey Shukudai, do y'suppose I could put that link in the main part with credit to you? Might help other ikers who just come in and see this thread hehehe, thx

 

[Shukudai]

please do that's what i made it for!

 

[RedZeshin]

LOL Thanx a ton man! Adding it right away XD

 

[DD151]

coincidentally, i was just talking to a friend about this two days ago. we won't be able to gauge its effectiveness until we've tested it in combat; theory only goes so far.

 

[Betaz]

<.< I've tested it in combat..online (only QD though :/) it works well as a surprise sometimes or to quickly turn around and escape if you see something...not too sure about eruption uses for this though...it could go either way <.< IMO the Eruption SAF might come out too late for it to work out of a run...unless you predict thier roll

 

[Shukudai]

i tested it in battle tonight as well. Pretty much the same results, B-reversed side B's on the ground are leet, you can run away from a potentially dangerous situation and smack the chasing opponent in the face. In the thick of it, it's pretty hard to get aerial B-reversals out the way you want though, might take a bit of practice. Also agreed on the SAF's on a B-reversed eruption being waaay too slow, i got foot'd by ganondorf many times tonight, to my oblivion.

now for a noob question. can someone please explain move names to me? i'm savvy with all the move notations, but when i see words like aether, eruption, quick draw, grand viper, i get a tad lost.

So far i've guessed aether/eruption are neutral B, quick draw is side B, and in the Big Ike thread it says Quick Draw AKA Grand Viper, but people seem to talk about grand viper as though it was a different move?

 

[FS Fantom]

So for the B moves, it's the same motion as what we do for Falcon/Warlock Punch in Brawl already: B, then immediately smash the other way.

For Side B (let's say as an example we want to attack to the right): You would dash AWAY from the opponent (we are going left now) then, do a side B to the left and IMMEDIATELY slam to the right?

 

[Shukudai]

you are correct, sir

 

[FS Fantom]

Hmm...the avoiding via dash and attacking the opposite way is a pretty fluid motion, then...

Dash left, continue holding left->B->right

Not too hard. The aerial one, I'm sure, is a bit harder to pull off.

 

[nitro-blazer]

now for a noob question. can someone please explain move names to me? i'm savvy with all the move notations, but when i see words like aether, eruption, quick draw, grand viper, i get a tad lost.

So far i've guessed aether/eruption are neutral B, quick draw is side B, and in the Big Ike thread it says Quick Draw AKA Grand Viper, but people seem to talk about grand viper as though it was a different move?

Eruption = Neutral B.

Aether = Up B

Quick Draw = Side B

Grand Viper = Quick draw approach. It's some ******** name, but you use it, don't actually hit with it but get close enough to do a jab or uptilt.

 

[Shukudai]

thankyou grand viper seems... redundant. The name, that is, not the technique of using a QD to approach

 

[blazinfire0]

quick draw is the name of the combo using quick draw as an approach to use the up tilt to hit them rather than the quick draw itself you cand AAA out of it instead but grand viper is what utilting out of a missed quick draw not both you can also grab out of it

 

[FS Fantom]

If you miss quick draw and attack, that's a grand viper? Who came up with that?

Also, if you miss with quickdraw, isn't there lag?

 

[Shukudai]

lol i agree, where did that arbitrary definition come from?

a missed quickdraw (or grand viper, or... aah i dunno) recovers surprisingly well. The opponent needs to be really on the ball to realise you missed, drop their shield, and then do a move fast enough to interrupt you.

 

[ifthisisitsobeit]

I would have to disagree about a missed or blocked quickdraw's recovery time. It is really noticable and you will be punished when this occurs, at least that what I have seen and experienced.

And on a side note, Grand Viper sounds so silly. Sounds like a move from Chrono Cross...

 

[Shukudai]

blocked does not equal missed. therein lies the misunderstanding

blocked = still attacks, thus lag.
missed = no attack, since QD doesn't connect at all.

 

[ifthisisitsobeit]

I meant missed as in they dodged the attack and Ike still swing good ole Ragnell.

 

[Veil2222]

People are overestimating quick draws effectiveness a lot, it only works if you use it as a safe follow up, or a rare unexpected attack. It's third use is the grand viper combo, but people who spam this get punished pretty fast. QD is a really bad move to use a lot, if it gets spot dodged, you may as well have tripped.

 

[RedZeshin]

LOL the name Grand Viper, I think it comes from the Guilty Gear fighting series. I think Sol Badguy (?) had an approach attack that could be canceled and connected into different moves. So with Ike, in a way, if you use the QuickDraw to get close enough that you don't actually hit anybody and just stop right in front of your enemy, and then just start doing jab attacks, well that's alllmooosst the same I guess. It's sorta like cancelling into different attacks from your approach, on the screen it looks just the same, but it's not really. XP

One other good use for QuickDraw is speeding across the stage. If you time your QuickDraws right, you can actually connect them without lag, and just string a bunch together. Helps to close the gap with your opponent methinks, especially since Ike is such a slow character. Sucks if somebody's spamming the stage though, just gotta make sure that doesn't happen hehe :D

 

[FS Fantom]

LOL the name Grand Viper, I think it comes from the Guilty Gear fighting series. I think Sol Badguy (?) had an approach attack that could be canceled and connected into different moves. So with Ike, in a way, if you use the QuickDraw to get close enough that you don't actually hit anybody and just stop right in front of your enemy, and then just start doing jab attacks, well that's alllmooosst the same I guess. It's sorta like cancelling into different attacks from your approach, on the screen it looks just the same, but it's not really. XP

One other good use for QuickDraw is speeding across the stage. If you time your QuickDraws right, you can actually connect them without lag, and just string a bunch together. Helps to close the gap with your opponent methinks, especially since Ike is such a slow character. Sucks if somebody's spamming the stage though, just gotta make sure that doesn't happen hehe :D

THATS why that sounded so familiar, lol. Stringing QDs together to get across the stage sounds like a good idea, especially if you launch them to the far end and want to get there to edgeguard/pressure...no chance of doing that with Ike's run speed. Is there a certain point in the move to start the input again to minimize/eliminate the lag? I like to play Ike as a side character, so knowing this would be a BIG help.

 

[RedZeshin]

LOL well, to string QuickDraws you just have to enter a second QuickDraw in the ending frames of the first QuickDraw, right around the time that Ike's dash has ended and his cape just starts to fall back down. Anytime before that point, and well it doesn't work, the second QuickDraw doesn't get registered and nothing happens. Anytime after that point, however, you should be able to enter in another QuickDraw and it should get executed. The trick is to try to push back your second QuickDraw's timing as close to that cutoff point as possible, it isn't too hard once you get a good feel for it, and if you do it successfully the QuickDraws come out pretty quickly.

I've used it a few times to dash close to the enemy, and in reaction they try to attack. But then I unexpectedly dash out of the way, so they wind up flailing around at empty air... LOL and then I dash right back to land an attack! It can be pretty useful, just gotta get over the tricky timing.