If Sheik D-Throws You

[Sirocco]

What would be the ideal course of action for taking the least amount of damage and escaping the tech chase? From what I could piece together from watching Hax, S2J and Wizzy vs. M2K and other Sheiks, intentionally not teching and SDI'ing the jabs gets them out and resets the situation pretty quickly. I've seen that you can also SDI the up tilt and double jump away.

I'm not really sure what else can be done. Tech rolling in either direction for the most part just seems like a really bad idea, considering how slow it is. I think it's a good mix up if you conditioned Sheik to expect the above, but if they are tech chasing on reaction then it seems to always end in disaster.

I also saw that there is a point where Sheik's down throw can get an immediate regrab before Falcon hits the ground. Not sure on the percentages for that, but I'm wondering if that is escapable via specific DI and how long that chain grab would last to begin with.

Sheik's ground wobble is so rough. But if the damage can be minimized then I think the matchup would fare a lot better, so long as we are able to consistently escape quickly and reset to neutral. Tired of seeing M2K JV5 random Falcon players, lol.

 

[Sieghart]

I'm not by any means the best person to be answering your question but I'd just like to point out that the escape is never guaranteed since in theory Sheik has an answer to every option much like Falcon does on spacies as well. The goal is moreso to choose whichever option you believe said Sheik will have the highest chance of screwing up allowing you to escape.

From my observations, missing the tech then either SDI-ing reset attempts for an escape or using getup attack since that seems to be the option Sheiks and tech chasers in general are the worst at covering.

 

[Sirocco]

Figures. Any idea what the options are for Sheik on punishing the missed tech? Specifically punishes that let Sheik continue to follow up. If they all just hit Falcon away and lets him escape then I think that is a pretty fair trade. Better than eating an absurd amount of percent from tech chasing. From what I've seen that's kind of how it usually went when M2K would grab players like Wizzy, in that he would only get a few hits before they get out of there.

 

[Sieghart]

Figures. Any idea what the options are for Sheik on punishing the missed tech? Specifically punishes that let Sheik continue to follow up. If they all just hit Falcon away and lets him escape then I think that is a pretty fair trade. Better than eating an absurd amount of percent from tech chasing. From what I've seen that's kind of how it usually went when M2K would grab players like Wizzy, in that he would only get a few hits before they get out of there.

Jab reset or wait and react to the option chosen. Typically you'd choose getup attack and they'd try to react to that with shield or proper spacing but most Sheiks or really tech chasers in general drop that most times because it's pretty difficult to react to. This was my reasoning for suggesting it unless another option seems better to you in that situation. You should really work on SDI-ing reset attempts though since that's a big thing in general in tech chasing.

 

[Nishifue]

aaaaaaaaaa

 

[Magellan]

I haven't played many frame perfect Sheiks. Keeping a roll buffered can help you reset. Sometimes you can even punish a laggy DA or grab.

 

[Coyle]

Man I hate this MU specifically because of this. Almost makes me wanna get the PAL version. I play friendlies with a guy both of us can agree I'm more skilled between us two an he wins a good 60% of the matches we play just because of this. Honestly what I never thought to not tech and sdi the jab reset, but I'm pretty sure my friend doesn't know how to do that. He typically dash attacks if I miss the tech.

I would take that as a learning opportunity to become great at the match up. Expose that dude, bruh. If you face any Sheiks better than him, they'll have more to rely on than basic d-throw techchase, and then you'll really wanna get PAL.

 

[Nishifue]

aaaaaaaaaa

 

[Sirocco]

Oddly enough I'm beginning to feel like Sheik's tech chase is actually way overrated. Maybe I haven't really seen enough, but I've been watching the reaction tech chase in particular and I can't say if Sheik can legitimately convert a kill off of it. It always seems like Sheik has to break off from just grabbing and go for some hard read in order to be able to do that, which ultimately means it can be avoided. As an example, the Leffen vs. DruggedFox game at EVO. Now I could be jumping the gun a bit here, and maybe DF wasn't playing that well, but despite getting his impressive reaction tech chases, Leffen was living pretty much every stock to 130%+, with the situation resetting every time the tech chase ended, and by resetting I just mean Leffen was able to act freely, and theoretically did not have to lose any stock simply because of getting grabbed. This makes sense to me, seeing as how Sheik generally does not have any real kill moves, and at best just sets up an edge guarding situation, which again, can be avoided. I could be missing something though. Regardless, I would still say our tech chase is superior.

 

[1MachGO]

Oddly enough I'm beginning to feel like Sheik's tech chase is actually way overrated. Maybe I haven't really seen enough, but I've been watching the reaction tech chase in particular and I can't say if Sheik can legitimately convert a kill off of it. It always seems like Sheik has to break off from just grabbing and go for some hard read in order to be able to do that, which ultimately means it can be avoided. As an example, the Leffen vs. DruggedFox game at EVO. Now I could be jumping the gun a bit here, and maybe DF wasn't playing that well, but despite getting his impressive reaction tech chases, Leffen was living pretty much every stock to 130%+, with the situation resetting every time the tech chase ended, and by resetting I just mean Leffen was able to act freely, and theoretically did not have to lose any stock simply because of getting grabbed. This makes sense to me, seeing as how Sheik generally does not have any real kill moves, and at best just sets up an edge guarding situation, which again, can be avoided. I could be missing something though. Regardless, I would still say our tech chase is superior.

The thing you are missing is dash attack. Sheik is more than capable of using dash attack from tech chase and converting a KO from a fair and edge guard. Falcon's only reliable tech chase follow up is regrab.

You also have to consider that all of Sheik's tilts are frame 5 launchers with relatively low commitment. If you are at high percent, Sheik becomes very threatening on defense because any of these attacks can convert into a kill (along with spaced short hop fair or nair)

Falcon has great speed and shouldn't be trifled with at high percent, either, but he doesn't have a frame 6 panic button OoS option or a frame 5 launcher that can set up his knee. He simply doesn't have as many options as Sheik does.

 

[Rachman]

You can just asdi down punish unstaled dash attack til 57 on a tech chase, staled even further. Perhaps in the future you should search for the answer or ask for help rather then complaining. There are many things wrong with your statements, mostly because you are missing basic counterplay, but I'll leave it at that.