If Melee Didn't Exist...

[WwwWario]

(To start off: Please don't let this turn into another pointless war. This has nothing to do with it. Sm4sh and Melee are two very different games)

Let's think for a moment. Back in the day, if Smash 64 jumped straight to Brawl, and Brawl to Sm4sh - exactly how do you think people would look at Smash 4 and Smash Bros. in general? Would it please more people? Would people appreciate Smash 4 then than now? And would Smash 4 be as big competitively as it is today, if Melee's big bang never took place?

 

[mario123007]

Without Melee, Smash Bros series wouldn't be as famous as right now. Those pro wouldn't exist, or being known by us. And last but not least, Smash4 wouldn't be as good as right now. And this website may bit exist either...

 

[Khao]

If Melee didn't exist, Brawl would now be Melee.

That's really all I gotta say about it. Melee was an attempt to take the N64 gameplay and make it more complex, in-depth and exciting (pretty much the most obvious next step if you don't want to make a quick rehash) and Brawl was toning it down a bit after Sakurai felt like he took the idea too far. It was basically bound to happen, so if Melee hadn't been a thing, Brawl would likely be the game with the fast gameplay and complicated advanced mechanics. You don't learn from your experiments if you don't experiment in the first place. Melee is the experiment in this case. Brawl is too to some extent, but Sakurai had a clearer vision on where he wanted to take the series because of Melee.

So it's not as simple as that. If Melee didn't exist, Brawl would most likely be a completely different game.

 

[Evil Burrito]

wouldn't matter for me, i'd still be playing and loving the games

 

[Deleted member 269706]

..then the world would be a better place.
I'm only joking, but @ Evil Burrito put it perfectly.

 

[chipndip]

1) Sm4sh wouldn't be as good.

2) The franchise's success? Could go either way.

3) Smash as a franchise wouldn't be considered by the FGC.

4) Competitive play on a serious level would probably take off with this game, assuming it's even comparable in quality to what it is right now.

If we were to assume Sm4sh would still be the exact same as it is now and would be what it will be despite Melee's absence:

1) Franchise success? Could go either way.

2) Smash as a franchise could eventually be considered by the FGC, but not by the time of writing.

3) Competitive play on a serious level would definitely take off with this game.

 

[Tino]

I would still play Smash Bros. either way since I missed out on Melee. Glad I did thanks to the fanboys ruining my interest in it.

 

[CrabLeg]

I think Melee created the competitive scene for Smash Bros. Without Melee, Smash would just be another party game made by Nintendo.

 

[Space Stranger]

You all are forgetting two of the most important contributions Melee has done for the Smash community

1. WOMBO COMBO
2. No items, only, Final Destination

But seriously, I would have enjoyed the follow-ups to 64 either way.

 

[Zylach]

I agree that brawl and sm4sh wouldn't be the same way they are now since melee provided Sakurai with the knowledge he needed to change the franchise even further. If go with a completely hypothetical approach and say that brawl and sm4sh are exactly as they are now without melee ever existing, then I think competitive smash bros would be nonexistent. Or, at least, it wouldn't be as developed as it is now. Smashboards probably wouldn't even exist. We wouldn't be discussing anything right now because I wouldn't even know that you guys existed. Ergo, thanks melee for giving me friends because I couldn't have any if not for you.

 

[Mobes]

I'd believe that some sort of competitive scene would be around, but Melee massively helped Smash reach for higher skies then other game series.

 

[kinbobbobkin]

Like said:
Smash probably wouldn't of gotten popular.
Brawl may of put in wavedashing and the continuation of L canceling.
Project M wouldn't exist.

But I would still play all either way.

 

[IrrationalX]

We probably wouldn't be here if Melee didn't exist, let's be honest.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

I believe Smash 4 would kickstart a bigger competitive scene seeing how Brawl was promoted to the casuals and Sm4sh was promoted as a game for both sides.
BUT, if Brawl was like Melee (a enhancement to SSB64 mechanics), and Sakurai changed Sm4sh like SSBB, there could have a scenario like we know, probably even worse (seeing how hyped it was).

 

[LunarWingCloud]

If Melee didn't exist, Brawl would now be Melee.

That's really all I gotta say about it. Melee was an attempt to take the N64 gameplay and make it more complex, in-depth and exciting (pretty much the most obvious next step if you don't want to make a quick rehash) and Brawl was toning it down a bit after Sakurai felt like he took the idea too far. It was basically bound to happen, so if Melee hadn't been a thing, Brawl would likely be the game with the fast gameplay and complicated advanced mechanics. You don't learn from your experiments if you don't experiment in the first place. Melee is the experiment in this case. Brawl is too to some extent, but Sakurai had a clearer vision on where he wanted to take the series because of Melee.

So it's not as simple as that. If Melee didn't exist, Brawl would most likely be a completely different game.

Give this guy a gold trophy. I couldn't agree more. Without the extra game to experiment with what works and what doesn't, Smash 4 just wouldn't be Smash 4. It's a blessing to have had the chance to play each game and it's evolved so well in 4 installments.

 

[Wintropy]

Doc, Roy, Pichu, Marth, Mr Game & Watch and Ice Climbers and Falcondorf wouldn't exist.

And that is just sad.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Doc, Roy, Pichu, Marth, Mr Game & Watch and Ice Climbers and Falcondorf wouldn't exist.

And that is just sad.

Yeah cause Falcondorf is fun af in all Smash games yo

 

[kantoskies]

We probably wouldn't be here if Melee didn't exist, let's be honest.

I think the forums would still exist, just be extremely different. There are forums for Animal Crossing after all (they're all terrible and pretty small but that's besides the point). Assuming the competitive scene didn't exist or was much smaller then Smashboards would just be a much smaller version of what it is now.

 

[Hermitdude]

M2K, Mang0, And the smash competitive scene in general just wouldn't exist

 

[LancerStaff]

If Melee didn't exist, Brawl would now be Melee.

That's really all I gotta say about it. Melee was an attempt to take the N64 gameplay and make it more complex, in-depth and exciting (pretty much the most obvious next step if you don't want to make a quick rehash) and Brawl was toning it down a bit after Sakurai felt like he took the idea too far. It was basically bound to happen, so if Melee hadn't been a thing, Brawl would likely be the game with the fast gameplay and complicated advanced mechanics. You don't learn from your experiments if you don't experiment in the first place. Melee is the experiment in this case. Brawl is too to some extent, but Sakurai had a clearer vision on where he wanted to take the series because of Melee.

So it's not as simple as that. If Melee didn't exist, Brawl would most likely be a completely different game.

That's just completely off...

Melee wasn't designed to be significantly more complex then 64, and these "techniques" weren't supposed to be used. Doubt L-canceling was supposed to be anything beyond an Easter Egg...

Brawl would likely of been some freakish mix of Melee and the real Brawl. More then likely Wavedashing would of been squashed mid-development with the extra time, considering it was "left in" mid development, and L-canceling removed because of online (assuming this is on the Wii of course). Fall speed could really go either way, but no doubt defensive actions would be buffed to match the more powerful items. Wether or not air-dodging would be Melee or Brawl's would be hard to say, but it would certainly exist in some form.

Anyway, most of the Melee clones wouldn't be there at all. Dorf would probably be what's currently Ike and Marth would be the sole FE character. Shiek wouldn't be there at all, and Zelda would probably have a completely different moveset (but not necessarily better then what she has now). TL would probably be there, maybe less of a clone. ICs probably wouldn't of made the cut (to better optimize the game) and 8-player Smash would of came a generation early at the cost of graphics. Peach and Bowser would probably be like their Brawl versions, and then Mewtwo would probably be playable with a better moveset.

With the Brawl characters, not too much would be different. Wolf would probably get in over Falco and be somewhere between the two. Lucas probably wouldn't of been added because they never had plans to replace Ness in Melee. PKMN Trainer and ZSS wouldn't get in either because of transformations not being possible with 8-player Smash, but Charizard would probably be playable with Mewtwo, Lucario, and probably another gen 4 mon. Miis might of been implemented early, but Villager probably wouldn't of. ROB and G&W might of had to fight for a spot. The Brawl newcomers otherwise wouldn't of been changed that much, but a Kirby character and Olimar might of been put off for later. Meawl would of had less characters then Brawl due to a lack of pressure to add a bunch, but much more full characters then Melee because they wouldn't need to pad things out with clones.

Smash "4" would probably be further corrective of Meawl, but how it'd play is impossible to peg. Chrom may of had a shot over Robin since there's so few FE characters, Mewtwo probably wouldn't of been cut, and Snake might of not been cut either since the series would of went a long time without cuts. Alph would of been playable before Doc, which could possibly effect Lucina and Dark Pit depending on how much more or less time they put into him compared to Doc. The overall more popular (or more accurately, less divisive) Ninten would of been a Ness alt without any voice differences due to ease of adding and to give the obscure and finished series some more love. Metroid would still be at one rep because TOO BIG, Jr. wouldn't of made it due to his "bottom of the barrel" status Sakurai hinted at, and Mac probably wouldn't of either due to comparitively little demand and lack of an apparent moveset. Shulk is about 50/50, depends on how many characters they'd want to add.

 

[Kwinston]

I feel like smash wouldn't have much of a competitive scene. Melee is what got the competitive smash scene going. Smash might have just ended up being a party game franchise to most people. But lets say that the competitive scene was just as big as it was now... if so then no one would complain about the game being slow or defensive because they would just think "Oh, that's just how smash bros is..."

 

[Slurzen]

competitive scene would not exist, many amazing things such as wavedashing and comp talk like "DI" and "punishing"

 

[Jellydino]

Most likely it would still be the same way but with a smaller competitive field. Just because Melee would get removed wouldn't change the drive for people to look to it as a competitive game, there's many players that started in Brawl and still play. E.G ZeRo and Dabuz

 

[dahuterschuter]

People would be disappointed with the huge gameplay downgrade from 64 to the sequels.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

People will ***** regardless of everything really.

 

[Malkasaur]

It wouldn't mean anything. Brawl was the way it was because of Melee, and Smash 4 is the way it is because of Brawl and Melee. Brawl would be Melee and Smash 4 would be Brawl. The only changes would be with the roster. Fire Emblem characters wouldn't be in, I doubt we'd see some of the "retro" characters that are in now (Ex: Mr. Game and Watch). But gameplay wise, it would be the same.

 

[Jellydino]

competitive scene would not exist, many amazing things such as wavedashing and comp talk like "DI" and "punishing"

So, you're trying to sell the notion that if melee didn't exist in smash, nobody would know what DI or Punishing is even though these were around since 64? Whatever bridge you're trying to sell, I can't imagine a single person buying it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Fire Emblem wouldn't never made it to the US/UK. Lucas never would've hit Brawl, since he only got in because Melee proved JP-only characters is fine. Mewtwo only really is in Smash because of Melee. He'd never had returned, and probably would not have been in Brawl(similar situation, except he may not have even been in the files). The entire Smash cast would be far smaller too. No Ice Climbers, for starters. The Zelda series would be stuck at 3 possibly, since there was no one notable enough beyond the core 3 and their alternate variations to even be considered for the game series itself. Except two clones(Toon Zelda and Toon Sheik), and since there'd be no Sheik, just Toon Zelda. But Toon Zelda also was only really considered because we had a child Link in Melee, who became Toon Link. So yeah, no other Zelda characters would be in by that point. Melee set the stage for one of the best rosters of all time. It simply added to 64's already great roster. Even though Brawl and 4 had cuts, they were still amazing rosters, and Melee deserves credit for making them possible.

 

[MVboy39]

Well, coming from someone who has only played Melee once (if you can count using Dolphin on some guy's laptop at a college cafeteria with a half-working XBOX controller as playing), it *looks* like a lot of the design choices made had to do with showing off how amazing the Gamecube was. When you turn on Smash 64, what is the first thing you see and hear? An intro video. When you turn on Melee, what is the first thing you see and hear? A gorgeous, prerendered, full-motion intro with a magical soundtrack -- quite literally music to your ears. There are the trophies, with their textures, reflections, glowing, and all other sorts of shader shenanigans. There are even subtle details, like the whole tilting thing on the character selection screen with the C-stick. I think that if Melee didn't happen, the Gamecube would be even more underrated than it already was, which would have been sad.

tl;dr: Melee showed off everything the N64 couldn't do.