Idea for CPU ai

[Vro]

I was just thinking, what if they had the best players around the world play the beta for a bit, and use their playstyles as ai for high leveled computers? I know that would be ridiculous, trying to capture the essence of a pro smasher into one computer ai, but i mean, basing the ai off of an intelligent player sounds great.

You would just ask pros or watch pros to see how the react to say 100 different examples. Then you would just teach the cpu ai to do what the pros would do. You could make it more difficult by having multiple outcomes determined by pure luck.

Metagame definitely changed as the game expanded in Melee, but the cpu's never did. Wavedashing against a cpu currently isn't that useful (but that's also because of a boatload of other reasons, not just of them not wavedashing). Wouldn't it be cool if ai packs could be downloaded? (I was also thinking on the same note if brawl is online, that they would patch the game minorly every so often =D ). What if the cpu jigs in melee knew about WoP? What if the cpu falco knew about shdl?

What do you think?

 

[OnyxVulpine]

There was an idea like this that had a thread earlier.

Like when you fight against the comp, it learns your moves. And someone said something about the pros can make an AI file thats just like the player and they can distribute it for training or something.

Still a great idea though.

-Onyx

 

[Dr. UnKnown]

that would be greatness, but as long as there is online, i doubt im gonna be playing against CPU's very much.....at all actually

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

What if the cpu falco knew about shdl?

Thatd be h4x, since it doesn't exist.

(maybe it will in brawl? Though everyone would hate it cept falco fanboys, but even they would find it to be overpowered)

 

[GregUnit]

yeah, that would be great for us, but what about the scrubs

WHAT THE **** DID HE JUST ****ING SLIDE ON THE ****ING GROUND?! HOLY ****

 

[The Hypnotist]

The pros thing is just impracical. They need to just make the uomputers do less stupid things, i.e: walking into motion sensor bombs, rolling under platfroms without attacking. And less unfair bullspit, i.e. powershielding. Make them do more combos, and change things up a bit more.

 

[Jossy]

on the real though,
the programmers are probably more pro than anyone who purchased the game...
the reason the AI of the computer players isnt THAT high is obvious:

1. too much work
2. it should still be enjoyable and they should still be beatable

 

[bluepeach]

yeah, that would be great for us, but what about the scrubs

WHAT THE **** DID HE JUST ****ING SLIDE ON THE ****ING GROUND?! HOLY ****

LMAO. It's true that someone who doesn't do advanced techniques would be....surprised. But it would be good for them, snap them out of their ignorance....of course who knows what wavedashing will be like on brawl...the controls are a little different.

I don't think wavedashing is that obvious either...except Luigi's maybe...cause he looks like he's seriously sliding accross the screen. Sometimes I wavdash and people don't even notice I'm doing something they don't.

Another point is that computers can be created to mimic the pros, just like in martial arts videos how they are graphed based on the body movements of well known martial artists....but when it comes down to it, no matter what style it uses, once you figure it out, it's useless, it just can not take the place of a human....and if it could adapt and learn, along with it's infallable reflexes, we would all look stupid.

Hm....now I'm going to have nightmares about a smash computer taking over the world.

 

[Arteen]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Virtua Fighter or anouther fighting game series did have some of its AI modeled after expert players.

LMAO. It's true that someone who doesn't do advanced techniques would be....surprised. But it would be good for them, snap them out of their ignorance....of course who knows what wavedashing will be like on brawl...the controls are a little different.

The problem is that the vast majority of people who own or play Melee don't know about the advanced techniques. The game doesn't even give any indication they exist. It would be entirely unfair if the AI kept on wavedashing or L-canceling or using other techniques not explained in the game or manual. Neither is obvious either. The average player won't know that he should press L to speed up recovery time when landing on the ground, or that he can slide by jumping and airdodging diagonally into the ground. If the Brawl game or manual explicitly mentions advanced techniques, then it's fine. If it doesn't, it's mean to anyone that never visits a website that explains them (ie: the majority of players).

 

[Chaos Paladin]

i would love that, im so tired of putting handicap on lv 9 computers and still pwning them, its fun to have a challenge

 

[peachykeen]

if hal had the brains they'd base the ai off hardcore CS players. we all know how ****ing unstoppable those guys are. and everytime they kill someone the announcer goes "MULT-KILL" "BOOM HEADSHOT".. that'd be ****ing sweet dog.

 

[Chaos Paladin]

ya smash needs stronger CPUs it should go up to 20 XD

 

[brawlpro]

i dunno fo sho but i heard that you can do sumthin with the cpu's in debug mode to make em better...i got confused when my friend told me that...

 

[GregUnit]

if hal had the brains they'd base the ai off hardcore CS players. we all know how ****ing unstoppable those guys are. and everytime they kill someone the announcer goes "MULT-KILL" "BOOM HEADSHOT".. that'd be ****ing sweet dog.

Why would top players of an FPS game be good at a 2d fighter?

the programmers are probably more pro than anyone who purchased the game...

No... just no... the programmers have said that they think wavedashing is the hardest thing. It's very rare for programmers to be masters of their game because they have jobs. If you don't believe me look at the developers of Rock Band failing on easy mode.

 

[Takeshi245]

It's a good idea, but it's not going to work considering the time and effort that they would have to put into so the AI can be that intelligent.

 

[Hong]

Meh. If computers dashed, combo'd, did some shffls, that's all we'd need to make them a challenge, especially when there are multiples. It's easy for a casual player to understand what they did but at the same time still "some" sort of challenge for an advance gamer.

 

[Vro]

Well, the argument about noobs being killed by hard ai doesn't seem to fit, because (as someone else stated) i think the cpu levels should go above 9. Maybe after beating Classic or something you could fight computers up to lvl 19.

Oh yes, I meant shl for falco =(

Just teaching the computers some adv techniques or play styles (think Ken or M2K's Marth) would be sweet.

Someone brought up a good point tho, if it does go online, why would we do that? Still seems like a great idea =)

 

[FoxxehRoxxeh]

I'd love to see a Computer TGM a guy

 

[Revven]

No... just no... the programmers have said that they think wavedashing is the hardest thing. It's very rare for programmers to be masters of their game because they have jobs. If you don't believe me look at the developers of Rock Band failing on easy mode.

No they didn't. You're thinking of that one Nintendo Power issue where NoA employees that played Smash during lunch breaks said Wavedashing was the hardest thing. NoA don't make the game, they localize it. NoJ (or Nintendo Co. LTD.) are the ones that have a hand in making the game (or just Sora in general). The TC was talking about Sakurai and the other 50 devs within Sora probably are better than us.

You have to keep in mind of the comment that Sakurai made about his team being really good in Melee. I don't know the specifics of the comment, but he did say they were good. Just, we don't know what he means by "good". Pros? Average players? What? It wasn't really given. There's really no way to tell how good they are. But, going by the trailers, someone knows what they're doing.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I love how choreographed all the updates are.

Do you think they decide what update to add weeks in advanced? Or just a day or two before?

(The Subspace Emissary and character updates don't apply to this rule)

P.S

Sorry for going off topic a bit, I've always wondered this and Falco400's post reminded me of it.