ICs: Sheik counter?

[Speedsk8er]

As an IC main, I really don't get how we can be a sheik counter. I always have trouble with sheiks. She always manages to combo my nana silly and then when I try to stop her, she immediately switches to attacking me. If I can ever land a grab, I manage to rack on decent damage but getting that grab is an aggravating practice because the ***** has like no lag so if she misses, she can immediately pull back. I don't understand how we're supposedly so bad of a matchup for you guys.

 

[$ick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkzV1QlxdcE

They do.

 

[pockyD]

if the sheik decides to play "gay" and campy, then she can give ICs a lot of problems

if she is all-out attacking you (like you seem to be saying), she should be cake though

as for that video, chu is just plain way better than dsf -_-

 

[Speedsk8er]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkzV1QlxdcE

They do.

Chu beating DSF doesn't prove a **** thing. Give me better proof. Preferably written.

Also, the sheik I play plays a combination of campy and aggressive. If they find a way to split us apart, which isn't hard, they'll just **** my nana.

 

[mood4food77]

IC grab, equals death to sheik

there's 2 of them, sheik can't grab (MAJOR THING FOR SHEIK)

ICs are faster than sheik

have disjointed priority

blizzard stops needles (who cares but cool anyways)

did i mention the fact taht sheik's dead once grabbed?

 

[Shack]

yea, all u need to do is chain grab, and then even when sheiks at 100% u can still smash her out of the grab for the kill.

They are a counter b/c they are very hard to grab can chain grab the **** out of sheik. If the sheik just needles a lot and spaces air attacks, it will be a lot harder, but thats y nothign is set in stone. It is possible that ur friend is just better than you. Be more aggresive so the sheik can't get little hits off.

 

[jamminjohn]

Because ICs can chaingrab sheik and break her bones until she's a girl again.

 

[Speedsk8er]

yea, all u need to do is chain grab, and then even when sheiks at 100% u can still smash her out of the grab for the kill.

They are a counter b/c they are very hard to grab can chain grab the **** out of sheik. If the sheik just needles a lot and spaces air attacks, it will be a lot harder, but thats y nothign is set in stone. It is possible that ur friend is just better than you. Be more aggresive so the sheik can't get little hits off.

Well, I usually win the matches. they're just really tough match-ups and I didn't understand why ICs are considered sheik counters. Just curiosity,

 

[pockyD]

i would dare say they aren't anymore

slight edge, maybe - i liken it to the sheik vs marth matchup

and IMO fox is better vs sheik than ICs are anyway

 

[Xsyven]

blizzard stops needles (who cares but cool anyways)

Are you sure about that? Because I don't think it does. I think it stops one needle, then the rest punish my Nana.




As for vs. Shiek, I can't do anything against one for the life of me. She's SO BROKEN. If, for some reason, you land a grab (which is hard because of how quickly she can combo), you're lucky.

If for some reason you're thrown off the edge, then you're dead. IC's have the most predictable recovery, and Shiek has agruably the best fair in the game.

I'm with the thread starter on this one. I don't see how people think that IC vs. Shiek is auto win.

 

[Vall3y]

the 'ic counter sheik' thing is a myth created in order to create better publicity for the ice climbers. needless to say, it worked quite well. the match up is at a small advantage for sheik at best.

 

[mood4food77]

ICs are the only thing stopping sheik from being able to go solo in tournament

sheik can't grab ICs...major loss for her, a lot of sheik's comboes come from the dthrow

 

[Raftbuilder]

ICs are the only thing stopping sheik from being able to go solo in tournament

sheik can't grab ICs...major loss for her, a lot of sheik's comboes come from the dthrow

not really, ic's arent a hard matchup imo.

the only icies player whos ever given me substantial trouble is chu, and thats just cuz hes a better player than me.

camp on the platforms and throw needles and space back airs, its not that bad.

fox pretty much stops sheik from going solo, not icies

 

[mood4food77]

ICs counter sheik...it's a known fact

fox and sheik go even

falco and sheik almost is even but slightly if falco's favor

 

[Raftbuilder]

ICs counter sheik...it's a known fact

fox and sheik go even

falco and sheik almost is even but slightly if falco's favor

ic's counter sheik is only a known fact by sheiks who aren't good and dont know how to play the matchup.

its not true, they have an adv in the matchup but really only as much as fox has.

and to say falco does better than fox against sheik is just silly.

fox runs circles around sheik compared to the other characters. Not saying its impossible, but its definitely the hardest along with ic's. Not even at all.

 

[Ryan-K]

shut up mood4food, raftbuilder is actually GOOD and knows what he's talking about.

 

[Xsyven]

the 'ic counter sheik' thing is a myth created in order to create better publicity for the ice climbers. needless to say, it worked quite well. the match up is at a small advantage for sheik at best.

You know-- I don't doubt that for a minute.

 

[Raftbuilder]

it would be a stretch to say its at an advantage for sheik, but its CERTAINLY not a "counter" matchup. I would say its slighly in icies favor, but its not unwinnable at all.

*except on FD

 

[Drephen]

i get ***** by IC =( =( =(

 

[Raftbuilder]

i get ***** by IC =( =( =(

drewww you never leave the ground what do you expect? =(

 

[Drephen]

drewww you never leave the ground what do you expect? =(

but i wanna grab the little ****ers...................

 

[Raftbuilder]

LMAO too funny. actually if u grab the popo then dthrow him right away u knock nana away, so that works. u just have to be quick and pray u dont grab the wrong one >__>

 

[Det]

I've played a pretty decent ICs... and while I lost, I can say it wasn't my hardest matchup... while when I was grabbed it was brutal, I had put up a pretty good fight. It's not too hard to seperate them, with a down smash, and then just knock Nana around, until death (Doesn't take long). Then you can grab Popo and beat the crap out of him... Although doing that to an ICies is still harder than what they have to do to a Sheik.

Just my personal opinion.

 

[mood4food77]

ahhh...sheik players never learn

they don't wanna accept teh fact there is an actual counterpick to sheik

 

[pockyD]

listen to mood4food he's on the second tier of best ganons in the world

 

[mood4food77]

i'm nowhere near that good

i'm just one of the better ganons taht talk and give advice

i honostly hate using ganon....

 

[Raftbuilder]

why are you arguing with me when i am one of the best sheik mains, and i live within an hour of chu and we play all the time?

dont you think i know a bit more about the matchup than you?

stay on platforms - camp with needles/back airs. never go to the ic's ever. icies have weak *** aerials, what are they going to do when you're up there? Once they come to you because you're winning, seperate and ****. It's not that hard.

As for one grab = death, one grab = death for icies vs EVERYONE with the onset of global wobbling. So that's not even a valid argument.

As far as ic's being faster than sheik, that's just a joke.

 

[A-Laon]

UmbreonMow uses a technique of playing Zelda and pressuring (i.e. spamming) fair/bair to seperate the ICs / kill Nana, and then switching back to Sheik to **** Popo. I've seen it used very effectively, and it's an option worth considering in this match-up.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Sheik main: OMG easy for Sheik

IC main: OMG easy for IC

>_>

G&W main: IC's technically have the advantage, because Sheik's physics are perfect for IC's combos and chaingrabs. However, it is difficult for the Ice Climbers to get in a position where they can do something advantageous to Sheik, like grabbing her or otherwise getting close in any way (besides WD dsmash). Sheik, on the other hand, is much faster with easier offensive options vs IC, and she can move in and out, quickly damaging the ICs with little attacks.

As far as ic's being faster than sheik, that's just a joke.

Wavedashing ICs are faster than Sheik. However, Sheik has faster attacks than IC.

 

[Malk]

I'd much rather fight ICs with sheik than jigglypuff. Which is kind of a random note, but the matchup isn't at all bad. The options sheik has all come out faster than ice climbers'. Grabbing to immediate downthrow works if you can reliably grab popo, as Plank (it is plank right?) said. If you grab Nana you will almost always get smashed, but that's the only real danger to throwing a quick grab out.

One weird thing is the overall game plan for sheik though. ICs will **** anyone on their platform, so sheik almost always wants to be above them. Like Plank said, camping on platforms is the way to go, but at the same time, ICs have better priority attacking upwards (forward smash, up air, back air) than sheik has attacking downwards (...fastfalling horizontal attacks). So the sheik needs to be above the ICs to prevent gay grab combos, but needs to also keep horizontal distance to retain her priority.

Still, the better player will always win. Counters, shmounters and all that.

 

[pockyD]

sheik outspeeds them when jumpy around gaily on platforms, and that's what matters -_-

 

[mood4food77]

actually, sheik doesn't wanna be above them...her dair has crap priority i think

 

[pockyD]

sheik wants to be diagonally above them (the needle triangle)

and why would she come down on them anyway? why not just keep hopping around -_-

not every game is played on FD

 

[Malk]

She has to 'come down on them' to 'attack'. Not every Ice Climbers player will jump at you constantly. And when she comes down, you want to be at a diagonal angle. Jumping off a platform and then wavelanding backwards off it is a nice mindgame if they are following your horizontal movement under you.

 

[TedBoosley]

i'm nowhere near that good

i'm just one of the better ganons taht talk and give advice

i honostly hate using ganon....

Dude you claimed you were a Tier 2 Ganon in a Marth thread. You put yourself among Chaddd, Magus, etc.

 

[mood4food77]

...who are you?

 

[Endless Nightmares]

He's obviously TedBoosley. It says it right there above his avatar :3

 

[ArcNatural]

I think one of the main reason's IC's is a problematic matchup is because it doesn't matter if the IC's are in sync or not. Popo can dthrow chaingrab sheik easily. So the no grab thing is much worse for Sheik than most of the other characters. At least with other characters as long as you screw Nana up a bit you can occasionally get out of grabs because Nana isn't at the proper spot to keep the IC chaingrabs going.