My Background
Okay hi everyone a little background on me. I'm fairly new to smash I've been playing for about 4 months. However I am not new to competitive gaming playing mostly 3rd strike. I played Jiggly and placed second in our university tournament, after losing the finals to a beastly Samus. At the very end of Melee I was playing Icy's as my second and looking forward to maining them in brawl.
recently I got access to a modded Wii and a copy of Brawl
now here is where the horror begins ... * lol
when I first picked Icy's I was in shock the Ice climbers are now slow really really slow...
no more wave dashing, I had to stop myself from attempting to do it on twitch reaction.
Most of the old desyncs are out now. I've gotten dash dance to work, and couple others which I cant figure out yet exactly. If your use to dominating with Icy's in the last one, be prepared to lose, at least at first because this Icy's is altogether a different beast.
Nerfs
-Killing power on b-air, f-s, d-s, u-s
-slow so, so, slow now
-not as many desyncs so far, they seem to sync up allot faster now. (this could be good or bad in some ways)
-wavedash,-wave grab, wave smash is out
-Ice cubes don't take as much damage as they use to, they also melt faster now
So with all this I was beginning to think the climbers where unplayable but luckily they got some buffs as well
Buffs
-both climbers can now grab ledge, and they can tether recover to get back
-f-air and n -air is much improved and their air game in general is allot better now
-Side B is now close to broken. Invincibility frames on start-up (tested against a donkey punch). Its invincible (early frames), it breaks shields, a very fast re-sync, can set-up combos, help you get in without wavedash, and can help you defensively get out of combos. The landing lag is reduced on this move and it hits much harder.
-some of their moves can hit for insane amounts of damage , I once hit a d-smash for close to 40 hp (tipper maybe?)
-standard grab range (without wave dash) seems to be improved and throw combos are still in
-d-special is improved
So far I've struggled with some really tough match ups, must notably against diddy and Ike
But I've had some success with the Icy's playing them, as mostly an aerial character, using the side special to get in, and zoning with cubes/n-air. Finally though brawl is not generally about edge-gaurding Icy's need to do this allot with their dilapidated killing moves. I've gotten several kills off edge guarding with them which I don't get with other characters. * Power sheilding it seems is going to be very important skill for the climbers. (more on this latter).
I got some tournament vids for you guys coming up, (I finished second to an amazing diddy) and some more info on brawl Icy match-ups.
But for now I got to take care of the girlfriend (at least for valentines day lolz)
My Vids
these videos are very old we will try to get some newer ones soon to reflect the changes in they way we/I am playing our climbers
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdhTVf3HPI
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMy3LrWQWJE
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4uDAPyau6I
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP3dZY9Retw
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYAg7knsCVA
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnIutHfaLDs
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6knqBrlyd4M
TheSlyMoogle (Fox) vs Som (IC)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrdcEZl1dLE
Som (IC) vs Jonathan_Meadows (Diddy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxRXPa7WMRg
How to beat Diddy
Edit (1)
Diddy is a beast, definitely one of the better characters in this game under our current understanding of it. I get to play a decent Diddy quite a bit, after losing close to 20 matches straight against him, I started to worry that this was an impossible match up. I know know its not, and in fact as this game progressive I can see it being even or even in favor of Icy's.
Here's what murders Icy's in this mathcup- (what to look out for as well)
(1) f-air, is **** it comes out fast, has high priority and has huge knock back
(2) f-smash is also **** it hits twice and has amazing knock back
(3) banana set ups can force separation of your climbers
(4) Didy's air doge and spot doge can make you think twice about attacking
(5) running a combos like crazy into f-smash and the like, its also safe unless...
YOU PARRY it..(twice). this is going to be a huge part of the ice climbers game in brawl
were going to have to learn to parry (power shield) like mad men. This changes the matchup completely
for example the Diddy player normally could spam f-air, and the knock back from a blocked forward air will leave you out of throw range and unable to punish unless you parry it. When you parry the attack the knock back is reduced and you can immediately grab, and set up a decent grab combo, and a possible reset. This is Huge ! you can do the same thing for running A. Power shielding (what I like to call parrying) is allot easer in brawl and is going to be key for getting throws and the ice climber game in general. Without mastery of it the Diddy battle is heavily in his favor.
so what else helps in this battle? well currently I'm playing a mostly defensive mindset, when I attempt to naturalize running a's with down tilts. block or parry f-airs (I've tried and nothing the climbers have will stop f-air effectively ( the smashes are to slow, and their tilts cannot effectively stop it, neither can their specials). You need to parry it ! then you can grab and punish with a combo. Another strategy I employ is to stay in the air and jump away defensively with your natural which is active for so long. Diddy has an amazing air doge but it can be mind gamed when you figure out Icy Ariel game. Three main approaches when you need to get it involve (1) your running a which you can follow up with a u-air or, mind game an air doge for greater punishment. (2) when you predict a banana toss or running a from mid distance use the invincibility frames from a forward special to get in. (3) there is still the dysnced approach. (4) the air approach (more info as it develops).
one last word of caution this match up is not easy, and you will lose allot at the begging and maybe with ice climbers in general. But it is winnable and if your good at power shielding and grab combos and smart play its winnable, maybe even in our favor.
How to do the brawl chain grab! and other combos
okay today my buddy Kyle, came over and we work and the "infinite" looking chain grab.
this is how it works, you need nana nearby. Popo grabs and back throws when he back throws there's a couple frames where the opponent is "bounced" on the ground before he goes flying. This is where you need to grab them. Its easer on big characters ie- Donkey but I've tested it successfully on pikachu/lugi and got it to work.
For now the timing is really hard so I'm focusing on one rep and one main combo with it.
Here's the input (1) popo grab (2) back on the control stick (3) back & z for nana to regrab (4) forward on the control stick, this will toss you opponent forward and set popo running (5) finally f-air for the spike and kill if off the edge. combo is hawt, try it out.
Updated * there are a couple variations on the chain throws
the 4 main ones include
(1) grab nana spike with f-air, re-grab if they appear to be standing after the spike. If they get knocked down then jab them with a forced wake up an attempt to re-grab. this is a decent combo first mentioned by virtual void, and is great for inflicting heavy damage quickly and is moderately easy to do. More testing needs to be done to see if opponnents can't reliable tech roll out of this.
(2) the back throw combo I mentioned
(3) the same as back air air but replace it with forward throw
(4) down throw running across the map, this combo demonstrated by Paxz follows the same principle as the back throw but its done with the down throw instead. after the first throw you have to run forward and re-grab into down throw. Possible the second easiest its heavily reliant on spacing and is the mostly doesn't work when your climbers are de-synced. This is opposed to the back throw or forward throw chain grabs which you can compensate and readjust easer. You could for example initiate a backthrow chaingrab if nana is behind you or a forward throw if she's infront of you.
Also we got another combo to work
(1) F-air to grab on low percentages (check it out on the second Donkey Icy Video underneath it happens really early on)
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMy3LrWQWJE
(2)I was able to combo an edge-guarding ice cube into a footstool jump for a kill on dk
(3) this needs to be confirmed but it seems that a short hoped fastfalled back-air might be able to combo into down-smash when timed correctly
(4) working on some combos with n-air its looks like it has very little lag and combo potential
Right now I'm working on some consistent desync approaches combos, and trying to out with up-b, will post up some new info on that soon/ .
New Desyncs!
updated* I was messing around in training mode and testing out some dysncs and I descovered around 12 more here they are some of them are insanely hard and likely not to be very usefull. I'll put a star on easy ones and a + on the seemingly usefull ones.
(1) *+ do your forward b special in the air tap on the button to get elevation, right before you land you can buffer a desync
(2)* the" blond roll" I use to do this by accident all the time, when done right it looks exactly like popo is rolling one way and nana bless her lolz is rolling the wrong way. its done by pressing back and L at the same time.
(3) *popo back roll nana forward grab. Back and z at the same time let go of the control stick quickly to have her do a forward throw towards the direction your facing
(4) *popo back roll nana backwards grab. Same but hold the control stick for a longer duration to turn nana around.
(5)+ spot doge nana, backroll popo, press downback and L at the same time. You need strict timming to pull it off
(6) platform drop de-sncy- jump up on the platform and immediately press down (fast fall might help) the instant popo lands (before nana) the result is one ice climber will drop and the other will stay.
(7)* + this might be obvious but its still can be useful, but after a failed nana-polt attempt you get a free de-sync.
(8) press the direction pad exactly in between uptilt and forward tilt, and press the attack button at the exact moment and you get a de-sync where one climber forward tilts and the other uptilts
(9) same thing for down and forward tilt
(10) same for uptilt and jump at the exact moment will result in one climber up-tilting on the ground and the other jumping into the air timing is strict !
(11)* jump de-sync, hold down block and jump right when popo hits the ground (jump deysnc)
(12) blond roll when your standing on the edge and it will result in popo air dogging off the sage and nana rolling forward. (don;t know how useful this is lol)
Okay hi everyone a little background on me. I'm fairly new to smash I've been playing for about 4 months. However I am not new to competitive gaming playing mostly 3rd strike. I played Jiggly and placed second in our university tournament, after losing the finals to a beastly Samus. At the very end of Melee I was playing Icy's as my second and looking forward to maining them in brawl.
recently I got access to a modded Wii and a copy of Brawl
now here is where the horror begins ... * lol
when I first picked Icy's I was in shock the Ice climbers are now slow really really slow...
no more wave dashing, I had to stop myself from attempting to do it on twitch reaction.
Most of the old desyncs are out now. I've gotten dash dance to work, and couple others which I cant figure out yet exactly. If your use to dominating with Icy's in the last one, be prepared to lose, at least at first because this Icy's is altogether a different beast.
Nerfs
-Killing power on b-air, f-s, d-s, u-s
-slow so, so, slow now
-not as many desyncs so far, they seem to sync up allot faster now. (this could be good or bad in some ways)
-wavedash,-wave grab, wave smash is out
-Ice cubes don't take as much damage as they use to, they also melt faster now
So with all this I was beginning to think the climbers where unplayable but luckily they got some buffs as well
Buffs
-both climbers can now grab ledge, and they can tether recover to get back
-f-air and n -air is much improved and their air game in general is allot better now
-Side B is now close to broken. Invincibility frames on start-up (tested against a donkey punch). Its invincible (early frames), it breaks shields, a very fast re-sync, can set-up combos, help you get in without wavedash, and can help you defensively get out of combos. The landing lag is reduced on this move and it hits much harder.
-some of their moves can hit for insane amounts of damage , I once hit a d-smash for close to 40 hp (tipper maybe?)
-standard grab range (without wave dash) seems to be improved and throw combos are still in
-d-special is improved
So far I've struggled with some really tough match ups, must notably against diddy and Ike
But I've had some success with the Icy's playing them, as mostly an aerial character, using the side special to get in, and zoning with cubes/n-air. Finally though brawl is not generally about edge-gaurding Icy's need to do this allot with their dilapidated killing moves. I've gotten several kills off edge guarding with them which I don't get with other characters. * Power sheilding it seems is going to be very important skill for the climbers. (more on this latter).
I got some tournament vids for you guys coming up, (I finished second to an amazing diddy) and some more info on brawl Icy match-ups.
But for now I got to take care of the girlfriend (at least for valentines day lolz)
My Vids
these videos are very old we will try to get some newer ones soon to reflect the changes in they way we/I am playing our climbers
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwdhTVf3HPI
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMy3LrWQWJE
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4uDAPyau6I
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP3dZY9Retw
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYAg7knsCVA
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnIutHfaLDs
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6knqBrlyd4M
TheSlyMoogle (Fox) vs Som (IC)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrdcEZl1dLE
Som (IC) vs Jonathan_Meadows (Diddy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxRXPa7WMRg
How to beat Diddy
Edit (1)
Diddy is a beast, definitely one of the better characters in this game under our current understanding of it. I get to play a decent Diddy quite a bit, after losing close to 20 matches straight against him, I started to worry that this was an impossible match up. I know know its not, and in fact as this game progressive I can see it being even or even in favor of Icy's.
Here's what murders Icy's in this mathcup- (what to look out for as well)
(1) f-air, is **** it comes out fast, has high priority and has huge knock back
(2) f-smash is also **** it hits twice and has amazing knock back
(3) banana set ups can force separation of your climbers
(4) Didy's air doge and spot doge can make you think twice about attacking
(5) running a combos like crazy into f-smash and the like, its also safe unless...
YOU PARRY it..(twice). this is going to be a huge part of the ice climbers game in brawl
were going to have to learn to parry (power shield) like mad men. This changes the matchup completely
for example the Diddy player normally could spam f-air, and the knock back from a blocked forward air will leave you out of throw range and unable to punish unless you parry it. When you parry the attack the knock back is reduced and you can immediately grab, and set up a decent grab combo, and a possible reset. This is Huge ! you can do the same thing for running A. Power shielding (what I like to call parrying) is allot easer in brawl and is going to be key for getting throws and the ice climber game in general. Without mastery of it the Diddy battle is heavily in his favor.
so what else helps in this battle? well currently I'm playing a mostly defensive mindset, when I attempt to naturalize running a's with down tilts. block or parry f-airs (I've tried and nothing the climbers have will stop f-air effectively ( the smashes are to slow, and their tilts cannot effectively stop it, neither can their specials). You need to parry it ! then you can grab and punish with a combo. Another strategy I employ is to stay in the air and jump away defensively with your natural which is active for so long. Diddy has an amazing air doge but it can be mind gamed when you figure out Icy Ariel game. Three main approaches when you need to get it involve (1) your running a which you can follow up with a u-air or, mind game an air doge for greater punishment. (2) when you predict a banana toss or running a from mid distance use the invincibility frames from a forward special to get in. (3) there is still the dysnced approach. (4) the air approach (more info as it develops).
one last word of caution this match up is not easy, and you will lose allot at the begging and maybe with ice climbers in general. But it is winnable and if your good at power shielding and grab combos and smart play its winnable, maybe even in our favor.
How to do the brawl chain grab! and other combos
okay today my buddy Kyle, came over and we work and the "infinite" looking chain grab.
this is how it works, you need nana nearby. Popo grabs and back throws when he back throws there's a couple frames where the opponent is "bounced" on the ground before he goes flying. This is where you need to grab them. Its easer on big characters ie- Donkey but I've tested it successfully on pikachu/lugi and got it to work.
For now the timing is really hard so I'm focusing on one rep and one main combo with it.
Here's the input (1) popo grab (2) back on the control stick (3) back & z for nana to regrab (4) forward on the control stick, this will toss you opponent forward and set popo running (5) finally f-air for the spike and kill if off the edge. combo is hawt, try it out.
Updated * there are a couple variations on the chain throws
the 4 main ones include
(1) grab nana spike with f-air, re-grab if they appear to be standing after the spike. If they get knocked down then jab them with a forced wake up an attempt to re-grab. this is a decent combo first mentioned by virtual void, and is great for inflicting heavy damage quickly and is moderately easy to do. More testing needs to be done to see if opponnents can't reliable tech roll out of this.
(2) the back throw combo I mentioned
(3) the same as back air air but replace it with forward throw
(4) down throw running across the map, this combo demonstrated by Paxz follows the same principle as the back throw but its done with the down throw instead. after the first throw you have to run forward and re-grab into down throw. Possible the second easiest its heavily reliant on spacing and is the mostly doesn't work when your climbers are de-synced. This is opposed to the back throw or forward throw chain grabs which you can compensate and readjust easer. You could for example initiate a backthrow chaingrab if nana is behind you or a forward throw if she's infront of you.
Also we got another combo to work
(1) F-air to grab on low percentages (check it out on the second Donkey Icy Video underneath it happens really early on)
Som (IC) vs Kyle (DK) 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMy3LrWQWJE
(2)I was able to combo an edge-guarding ice cube into a footstool jump for a kill on dk
(3) this needs to be confirmed but it seems that a short hoped fastfalled back-air might be able to combo into down-smash when timed correctly
(4) working on some combos with n-air its looks like it has very little lag and combo potential
Right now I'm working on some consistent desync approaches combos, and trying to out with up-b, will post up some new info on that soon/ .
New Desyncs!
updated* I was messing around in training mode and testing out some dysncs and I descovered around 12 more here they are some of them are insanely hard and likely not to be very usefull. I'll put a star on easy ones and a + on the seemingly usefull ones.
(1) *+ do your forward b special in the air tap on the button to get elevation, right before you land you can buffer a desync
(2)* the" blond roll" I use to do this by accident all the time, when done right it looks exactly like popo is rolling one way and nana bless her lolz is rolling the wrong way. its done by pressing back and L at the same time.
(3) *popo back roll nana forward grab. Back and z at the same time let go of the control stick quickly to have her do a forward throw towards the direction your facing
(4) *popo back roll nana backwards grab. Same but hold the control stick for a longer duration to turn nana around.
(5)+ spot doge nana, backroll popo, press downback and L at the same time. You need strict timming to pull it off
(6) platform drop de-sncy- jump up on the platform and immediately press down (fast fall might help) the instant popo lands (before nana) the result is one ice climber will drop and the other will stay.
(7)* + this might be obvious but its still can be useful, but after a failed nana-polt attempt you get a free de-sync.
(8) press the direction pad exactly in between uptilt and forward tilt, and press the attack button at the exact moment and you get a de-sync where one climber forward tilts and the other uptilts
(9) same thing for down and forward tilt
(10) same for uptilt and jump at the exact moment will result in one climber up-tilting on the ground and the other jumping into the air timing is strict !
(11)* jump de-sync, hold down block and jump right when popo hits the ground (jump deysnc)
(12) blond roll when your standing on the edge and it will result in popo air dogging off the sage and nana rolling forward. (don;t know how useful this is lol)
