I TOLD YOU!!!! you guys were falling into Sakurai's TRAP!!!!

[MetalGearLink]

I posted it here and in Gamefaqs...it looks like sakurai used the demos as a way to see which advanced techniques were there to remove them like he did whit L-cancel, adn to see what else in his power he can to to redude the gap between veterans and n00bs....

Is not like sakurai hates competitive playes, it looks like he, or should I say THE WHOLE NINTENDO does not understand the mind of a competitive/hardcore gamer.... they seem to think we would enjoy the game if everyone had the same chance...which is just false!!! why there are tournaments of melee but not mario party tournaments??? because melee is deep the best will win...while in mario party the best just goit 2 stars and the n00b falls into the boo space and steals the 2 stars from the veteran and wins....just look at what Regie said in the presentation of mario kart "an amateur could go toe to toe whit a veteran"... why are zelda games getting easier instead of harder.??? nintendo just wants to noobiefied everithing....

 

[draigaran]

I agree at least in part with the fact that Nintendo games are generally not very difficult.

 

[MetalGearLink]

I feel like when I got halo 2...everithing was better but the gameplay, because it was n00biefied

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Au7KE9xUVTk

 

[PanzerOceania]

sequel syndrome guys, they have to start it over to get new fans, it's never going to pick up from the intensity of the previous game and then climb to an even greater hight, it's just going to reset, and at least the very first time you ever played it, you were a noob, where as it will never be like that again.

pretty depressing eh

 

[MetalGearLink]

I agree at least in part with the fact that Nintendo games are generally not very difficult.

nintendo is good at making games, but they don't seem to understand the hardcore / competitive emntality....I want to have a challeng when fighting zelda bosses I don't want them to be so easie....I want to have a deep experience like melee....I don;t want everybody having the same skill like if it was mario party !!!

 

[SolidSonic]

I think they were developing the game with Japan in mind, and not the rest of the world. Japanese people really don't like competition in games... X_x

That may sound like a weird statement to make, but its true on some level.


They should have maintained a more international dev crew, this is what Kojima Productions now does to make sure the Metal Gear games are liked the world over... I don't think Nintendo is that open minded though.

 

[Black/Light]

. ..Why are LoZ games getting easyer? ALLL FRINGING GAMES ARE GETTING EASYER!

Even games that are completely aimed at "hard core gamers" like GoW and Heavenly Sword are at best 8-10 hours long to the arvg gamer. TP is actually one of the few games that can clock in 40+ hours of gameplay which it great IMO.

Plus, people have been playing the LoZ formula for the past 10+ years. . . not that hard to figure out the advanture now.

And I think that was a smart idea. Alot of things have been cut from the demo and it's clear Sakurai wants the game to be easyer to get into for everyone. Remember this. . . Chess doesn't have a glitch to abuse but that doesn't mean everyone can beat you if you are a good player. It's the player that wins. . .not the glitches

 

[Ojanya]

I agree. Nintendo needs to stop babying everyone.

 

[MetalGearLink]

sequel syndrome guys, they have to start it over to get new fans, it's never going to pick up from the intensity of the previous game and then climb to an even greater hight, it's just going to reset, and at least the very first time you ever played it, you were a noob, where as it will never be like that again.

pretty depressing eh

yeah but that is the point of a deep game, keep improving...what's the point of everybody having the same chance??? there is no point on training or competing

 

[Zink]

I think they were developing the game with Japan in mind, and not the rest of the world. Japanese people really don't like competition in games... X_x

That may sound like a weird statement to make, but its true on some level.


They should have maintained a more international dev crew, this is what Kojima Productions now does to make sure the Metal Gear games are liked the world over... I don't think Nintendo is that open minded though.

that's why the Japanese are better at every fighting game except Smash, right?

 

[SolidSonic]

that's why the Japanese are better at every fighting game except Smash, right?

Thats certainly the perception western gamers have of Japan, its not really accurate anymore though. I'm talking about the majority of Japanese gamers versus the west.

Western countries are far more competitive when it comes to video games then Japan. I've heard this from a number of different Americans in the industry, who visit/now live in Japan.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

Yeah, because we all know wavedashing and L-cancelling were the only techniques in existence that'll actually make you play well in Melee, right?

Right?

 

[iron blade]

Japanese people really don't like competition in games... X_x

0_0 SRSLY?

While some of the stuff OP said is true, Brawl is not Melee 2. It will have different techs most likely, hopefully not glitch exploiting ones though. Instead, more research needs to go into the usefulness of gliding, crawling, and footstool jumping.

 

[MetalGearLink]

. ..Why are LoZ games getting easyer? ALLL FRINGING GAMES ARE GETTING EASYER!

Even games that are completely aimed at "hard core gamers" like GoW and Heavenly Sword are at best 8-10 hours long to the arvg gamer. TP is actually one of the few games that can clock in 40+ hours of gameplay which it great IMO.

Plus, people have been playing the LoZ formula for the past 10+ years. . . not that hard to figure out the advanture now.

And I think that was a smart idea. Alot of things have been cut from the demo and it's clear Sakurai wants the game to be easyer to get into for everyone. Remember this. . . Chess doesn't have a glitch to abuse but that doesn't mean everyone can beat you if you are a good player. It's the player that wins. . .not the glitches

is not about the glitches, webedash wasn;t a big deal....but everithing else is, no L-cancel is a sin...it was on the old SSB site so it was intended to be in SSB and SSBM it was not a glitch, also the flotines, and the auto-sweetspot of the ledges....is not just the "glitches" practically EVERIUTHING has been n00biefied!!

 

[Ruggeth]

English. Learn it.

 

[Xanderous]

. ..Why are LoZ games getting easyer? ALLL FRINGING GAMES ARE GETTING EASYER!

Even games that are completely aimed at "hard core gamers" like GoW and Heavenly Sword are at best 8-10 hours long to the arvg gamer. TP is actually one of the few games that can clock in 40+ hours of gameplay which it great IMO.

Plus, people have been playing the LoZ formula for the past 10+ years. . . not that hard to figure out the advanture now.

And I think that was a smart idea. Alot of things have been cut from the demo and it's clear Sakurai wants the game to be easyer to get into for everyone. Remember this. . . Chess doesn't have a glitch to abuse but that doesn't mean everyone can beat you if you are a good player. It's the player that wins. . .not the glitches

Twilight Princess is 25 hours at best and much less on the second playthrough.

 

[PanzerOceania]

yeah but that is the point of a deep game, keep improving...what's the point of everybody having the same chance??? there is no point on training or competing

there is a big difference between what you want, and reality though man. To be honest though where as single player games have a set difficulty, multiplayer games have an infinite level of difficulty depending on who you play against.

essentially, the only person who can complain that Brawl is too easy is THE NUMBER ONE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD

everyone else is just posers, until they can claim world champion, they still haven't pushed the game to the full limit.

 

[Azamgi]

Wow. Somebody's upset.

It's not like they made it based on chance or anything. It'll still take skill to win, just a different kind of skill.

 

[MetalGearLink]

Yeah, because we all know wavedashing and L-cancelling were the only techniques in existence that'll actually make you play well in Melee, right?

Right?

as I said before, wavedash is not a big deal, I knew it could have been removed.....but L-cancel???? IT WAS ON THE OLD SSB web SITE!!!!....why even the INTENTIONAL stuff is being taken away???? besides why do they want to make it easy to grab the ledge????!!!!!!

 

[PanzerOceania]

so that people can edge hog more? Also, see my above post

 

[Adi]

Well, it wasn't really eloquent but I sorta agree.

 

[Luke Groundwalker]

as I said before, wavedash is not a big deal, I knew it could have been removed.....but L-cancel???? IT WAS ON THE OLD SSB web SITE!!!!....why even the INTENTIONAL stuff is being taken away???? besides why do they want to make it easy to grab the ledge????!!!!!!

BAWWWWWWWWWW.

 

[Undyingz]

i agree with iron blade, we just need to learn how to exploit what they give us this time. Also I'd say that in North America and some of Europe, yes we are more competitive in one aspect, but when you look to fighting games like Guilty Gear and other extreme 2D fighters, Japan is where its at. But thats just my 2 cents on the competitive thing o.o.

Also i don't really mind not having the wavedashing and such, hell it actually helps my game group because only me and one other guy could do it well =D lol.

 

[Black/Light]

Twilight Princess is 25 hours at best and much less on the second playthrough.

I have seen most fans clock in 40+ hours with it on release. I myself got 43-46 Hours clocked in on the first go partly cause I chose not to rush it.

 

[Your Hero]

IMO I thought he removed advanced techniques so that people would stop gambling money fighting against each other..

I just realised how stupid my reason is..

 

[PanzerOceania]

you DO realize that he put gambling INTO the game right? I think he did it to actually make it harder, now everyone has to learn new strategies. Be a pro or not, that's the challenge.

 

[Ruggeth]

Can a mod close this topic? Its creator only seems to be mad about wavedashing and Lcancelling.

And forgets that his opinion does not change anything about the game, and only provides contribution to the current "i know the whole game before its out in Us" trend.

Appreciated.

 

[Zek]

You guys think too highly of yourselves if you think the techniques that came up in a day or two of demo play wouldn't have been caught and fixed in the months of playtesting afterwards anyway.

 

[King_Dedede]

meh............

 

[Ruggeth]

Right. This thread is only fuel to the fire.

More of a whining topic, rather.

 

[PanzerOceania]

You guys think too highly of yourselves if you think the techniques that came up in a day or two of demo play wouldn't have been caught and fixed in the months of playtesting afterwards anyway.

quoted for truth.

 

[KingKraken]

Good for you...?

 

[Nonchalant]

Can a mod close this topic? Its creator only seems to be mad about wavedashing and Lcancelling.

And forgets that his opinion does not change anything about the game, and only provides contribution to the current "i know the whole game before its out in Us" trend.

Appreciated.

And I'm sure everyone appreciates your helpful insightful posts, what was your other one? Something about your inability to decipher what the OP was trying to say due to his complete lack of the English language? Or maybe it was your complete lack of common sense, a few spelling errors shouldn't deviate you from the point he was trying to make.


Is there anyone who doesn't agree that melee was one of, if not THE best fighter around? It's depth due to the advanced techs, wavedashing, L-canceling, etc. made it that way. Wavedashing isn't just some cheap glitch, it enhances your ability to have great mind games, it enhances your playing speed, and it takes time to learn and get proficient, it was a great technique to learn and provided so much more to the game. L-canceling as well, hard to do consistently without practice, but once mastered increased speed of the game.

Increased speed means you gotta think faster, means it's more intense, if you don't like it then don't play that way? What about all those who DID like the intensity AT's provided? Melee was a great game and I doubt that brawl will compare, unfortunately.



But it is too soon to jump to conclusions, maybe sakurai isn't like the others, maybe he put in some advanced techs, or maybe he made mistakes. Let's give it a few months before we start shunning it I guess.

 

[Your Hero]

Your sig is really gross.

 

[Igneous42]

Zelda games got easier because 3D games are easier than 2D games. OoT is easier than TP, go back and play both and you'll see that OoT is actually a very easy game, people just remember how difficult it was the first time they played it.

As for the topic at hand. Oh well, it's said and done. Brawl is what Brawl is, they aren't going to change it. Just like the roster, it's done, it's over no use crying over every mistake just keep on trying till you run out of cake? Get me?

And smash can still be deep without the removed advanced techs. If smash couldn't be deep without advanced techs than only competitive players would still be playing. But a lot of casuals still play Melee, just because someone is a casual smash player doesn't mean they are a casual gamer. I may not be a competitive smasher but I'm definitely a gamer. And gamers won't play a shallow game for 6 years.

 

[DMAJohnson]

it was on the old SSB site so it was intended to be in SSB and SSBM

Last I check, Brawl wasn't either one of those. :/

 

[juddapudda]

the way i see it, advanced techniques are not the only thing that seperate a pro smash player from a noob. i think that the biggest thing in this game is the psychology. i know all the advanced techniques, and use them, but i still have some friends who pwn me on a regular basis just because the have the psychological aspect of the game down.

 

[Ap0llo]

Personally I don't understand why people are *****ing about these "advanced techniques" they were effin glitches, same excuse can be applied in marvel vs capcom 2 with their endless amount of "advanced techniques", if they released a MVC3 and removed the infinites and other glitches you wouldn't see people crying about it because they were glitches.

God Dammit man

 

[PanzerOceania]

the hate in this room is tangible.

where is the love?

 

[Ap0llo]

wanna hug me