I ****ing hate losing to sheik

[gravy]

All I care about right now is becoming the best falcon in the world at the sheik matchup. If I got stomped out by every pichu main in the world but could beat m2ks sheik I'd be perfectly happy. Anyways, the salt content came from a recent set I lost to ANOTHER sheik. I want as much help as possible on this, I'm going to post the set.

 

[Captain Smuckers]

All I care about right now is becoming the best falcon in the world at the sheik matchup. If I got stomped out by every pichu main in the world but could beat m2ks sheik I'd be perfectly happy. Anyways, the salt content came from a recent set I lost to ANOTHER sheik. I want as much help as possible on this, I'm going to post the set.

I take more of an issue with falco, but thats prolly just cause I'm ass and can't death touch him. Sheik is definitely just a stupid match up though. Sometimes it feels like you just have to outplay them waaaay too much in order to win. I will say that I think around my level, the matchup isn't that awful. It's at the upper levels of play where the unfairness of the matchup really becomes visible

 

[gravy]

http://www.twitch.tv/snowman/b/464009000 The set starts at 20:30, let me know what you guys think.

 

[Jeapie]

I feel you man. Especially losing against 2 the same sheiks multiple times

 

[Windrose]

Damn. I know you could've taken that easily having played you this past weekend. You just have to work out the matchup a bit. There's lots of hax videos to study from.

I don't like using nairs too much vs sheik at low percents in the neutral game. It gets stuffed by ftilts and nairs and can be crouched. I like back airs and dash dancing vs sheik yoou have to run around and make sure you don't get stuffed by the wall of bs that sheik puts out to try to catch falcon. this can be hard playing on small stages like yoshi's though.

I'm curious as to why you didn't try to take sheik to FD, pokemon, or dreamland which are the much better stages vs sheik. Having the room to run around is really useful and FD really sucks for sheik, she has no platforms to poof to for recovering.

I remember you said you had trouble with edge guarding sheik. In the matches, you weren't timing your invincibility refresh correctly so you had to get up earlier than you want to. You want to be able to get up when she is poofing so she can't poof to the ledge and grab the ledge. This forces sheik to poof onto the stage or to above the ledge and fall down onto it after you get up.

If she poofs above the ledge, just wave dash back onto the ledge to hog her. You don't have to be in such a rush after you get up to try to hit her when she poofs onto stage, there's a lot of landing lag after she poofs. React to where she goes to (onto the platform is usually her best option) and stomp her. You have to stomp her from below the stage with your body if she's on the platform though but it's all very doable.

You probably already know most of this but it seems like you were struggling with it in the matches though.

I like edge guarding sheik because it's all a simple flow chart. There's very few characters with worse recoveries than falcon and sheik is one of them. The tough part is getting that hit into the grab and combo conversions to get her off stage for the edge guard. :S

 

[gravy]

Yah I guess I'm really just mis timing my ledge grab and that's my only issue.... I just have so little sheik experience :/ and I thought fd was bad against shiek because of how good her walls are, but I guess my throw combos make it worth it? I also want to test out ccing well I dd so I can just run right into ftilt...

Here's a question though, how do you guys like to space your dash dancing so she can't just easily dash attack you?

 

[Aggromidget]

My textbook for sheik is Mass Madness Hax vs M2K. Hax went to game 5, lost at FoD. I've got it downloaded so I can rewatch it easily

 

[Nicco]

I think vs sheik just spam nairs just outside either her dash attack range, or her ftilit range. I think approaching with a nair, reading she will cc dsmash, then put up shield immediatly then grab sounds viable. Alse you can always punish a shielded dash attack with bair or if you're quick then stomp.

100

 

[Zhea]

Honestly this is such a weird matchup for falcon. Shiek can't be in control due to falcons mobility and nair spacing. Falcons grab and combo game on shiek is among his best. And yet, every time falcon screws up, shiek grabs you and says "Look at this dumb ************" and proceeds to 0-death you. I never feel like the shiek player beat me when I lose, I always feel like I beat myself. That **** is infuriating.

 

[Windrose]

Both characters can punish each other really hard but sheik has the advantage for sure.

I hate nairs in this match up I like dash dancing and back airs more. I think it beats f tilts if you use back airs correctly. Read that somewhere when I first started learning the match up.

Back air is one of falcons best aerials!!

 

[Aggromidget]

Back air is one of falcons best aerials!!

I've thought about this, and I agree + more.
All of falcon's aerials are the best aerials. >.>
Each of falcon's aerials are useful and viable.
You (not you, people) need to learn when to use it, and how to set them up (space them and such)

 

[Deleted member]

Me too, I seriously hate the Sheik MU.

Every time I play a Sheik, I do everything in my power not to get hit and try to pull of grab combos.

 

[B[r]ico]

The Falcon - Sheik match-up is so stupid. Sheik has an amazing ground game and can literally zone your SHFFLs, meaning that if you play against a decent Sheik player, he will just grab you and beat the **** out of you if you misspace a single N-air. And FoD is just ********.

But still, if you're very careful and are able to get good follow-ups, you can turn it into a decent match-up. Get that ***** above 20%, then proceed to D-air her abusive CCs and combo her with U-airs. Uthrow -> knee should do the trick around 70-80%, I guess. (I'm not a good Falcon player, but I hope I'm not too wrong)

 

[ShrieK1295]

Honestly, I think there's not really any matchup specific advice worth giving you. There was just a lot of technical flubs and some poor fundamentals. I love Yoshi's as well, but it really didn't seem like you were good at playing in close quarters against Sheik. I'd suggest rethinking your striking (and allowing him to go back there). Better ledge guarding, as laid out above, would go a super long way as well.

 

[Zhea]

I hate Yoshi's against Sheik for one fundamental reason. All your up throw knee combos go from guaranteed to 50/50. Seriously. Try up throw kneeing shiek from 70-90 on that stage. You have to get them deep under one of the side platforms. Which means you had to approach Sheik at the edge. ****. THAT. Oh also he up-b becomes a true mixup with how the platforms are. TLDR: You are probably better off on fountain. At least it's kinda like FD some of the time.

 

[gravy]

I've become significantly better at the Sheik matchup since posting this. I really just became REALLY good at comboing her, even against m2ks sheik I did alright.

 

[Citizen Snips]

I've become significantly better at the Sheik matchup since posting this. I really just became REALLY good at comboing her, even against m2ks sheik I did alright.

Come to RIT on Wednesday and tell me how to beat Lefty's Sheik then

 

[Zhea]

God damn it why didn't I get involved in the smash scene when I went to RIT...

 

[gravy]

I'll be at RIT on Saturday.... You better be there! And zhea, you ****ed up.

 

[Zhea]

Yeah, instead of going to games club meetings I played gears of war and starcraft lans in the games lab. I ****ED UP. Then again I probably would have been a falco/fox main if I started then.

 

[Citizen Snips]

I'll be at RIT on Saturday.... You better be there! And zhea, you ****ed up.

I can't go, my girlfriend's visiting that weekend

 

[gravy]

Snips nooooo my first tourney here in months!

Zhea I wish you'd come back.

 

[Zhea]

Sigh... Yeah. Job johns, and being kind of the heart of the SA scene would make that hard. Hanging out with the NY crew at Apex was a lot of fun. Hopefully there will be another NY/Canada national besides ROM I can swing up to.

 

[SAUS]

I find that the shiek matchup is only bad because the neutral game is rough for Falcon. Comboing and killing Shiek is easy imo. Combos are not too hard, and killing is usually edge-hop knee after she up-b's onto the stage. Getting through needles and tilts is the hard part. I usually just try to bait stuff and space nairs as usual.

 

[Zhea]

Falcon wins neutral vs Shiek. His Nair and speed are way better. Shiek gets but destructed if she ever tries to fight him in the air with anything except needles. The biggest thing in that matchup is that Shiek's low percent punishes are amazing while Falcon's are terrible. Regrab doesn't tack on most dmg and she can usually escape off the stage. Her recovery game has legitimate mixups. Falcon struggles to tack on that first 30% and struggles to kill past 100% if Shiek keeps her DJ. Shiek Stuggles to get a grab if Falcon doesn't give it to her, BUT when she does, she has no issues tacking on damage at any percent and her kill setups(Dash attack/f-tilt/u-tilt -> Fair) are 100% guaranteed form a reasonable kill percent to way past 100%. What it comes down to is that Falcon has to sneak in nairs, uairs and bairs without getting setup into a grab from one of her traps to get her to throw combo central.

TLDR:
Falcon has the advantage in neutral, but his early safe stuff gives less payout then Sheik, and his kill window is smaller while Shiek's is night indefinite.

 

[Ziodyne]

Not sure if I can safely say Falcon wins the neutral. Sheik gets ****ed if she jumps, but she has no business jumping much in the first place IMO. Her ground game is incredible against Falcon.

IDK, falcon has mobility, sheik has dumb moves.

 

[Zhea]

He straight up out ranges er with his nair. His dash dance is longer and faster. There is a good reason Shieks camp. Not only is it their best option, it's their only one. Have you watched a Shiek try to catch a Falcon who is actively trying to run from them? It's hilarious how much trouble they have.

 

[Ziodyne]

He straight up out ranges er with his nair. His dash dance is longer and faster. There is a good reason Shieks camp. Not only is it their best option, it's their only one. Have you watched a Shiek try to catch a Falcon who is actively trying to run from them? It's hilarious how much trouble they have.

She's not trying to run after Falcon, she's trying to trap him. Falcon has to respect her personal space when she's not jumping, so she can do simple ground approaches (walking, occasional WD, etc.) to choke out space and push Falcon to the edge. Of course, Falcon can run away many times if the going gets tough, but at best you'll probably reset to neutral and at worst, Sheik catches your escape option and makes you pay dearly for it.

It feels somewhat similar to fighting against Marth. They can't just run in and approach you, but you can't do the same, and they benefit much more from pure space control.

 

[victra♥]

gravy your falcon is ****ing god like