• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

I don't like novels

Jam Stunna

Writer of Fortune
BRoomer
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
6,450
Location
Hartford, CT
3DS FC
0447-6552-1484
Link to original post: [drupal=883]I don't like novels[/drupal]



WARNING- Contains spoilers for several books, including The Kite Runner and A Thousand Splendid Suns.

I've been writing my entire life, or at least for as long as I can remember. I've gotten better at it, and my subject matter has changes as I've gotten older, but the creative spirit that drives me to create fiction is the same as it was when I was eight years old.

However, I have not always been a reader. It was not until very recently (this year, actually) that I realized the correlation between reading fiction and writing fiction. I can't believe I was so blind to it for so long, and now that I've actually taken the time to read, I've noticed a significant increase in my writing abilities. It's like I said to another writer on these boards: trying to write without reading is like trying to create music if you've never heard a song. It just won't work.

But there's something missing there. I realized that it's not necessarily that I don't like reading. I've read thousands of articles in magazines and newspapers, in fact I try to read the newspaper every day. I spend too much time on these boards (just ask my wife), and this forum is entirely dependent on reading, as is the internet as a whole. I consistently score well when it comes to reading comprehension exams. What I've come to realize is that my problem isn't with reading, it's with reading novels.

I've started eight books in the last two years, four of which were novels and four which weren't. Of the non-novel books, I finished three of them; of the novels, I only finished one. As I said, my problem is not committing my attention over hundreds of pages, I can do that with ease. My problem is with the novel as a writing form.

I write short stories. At first, I considered them to be a stepping stone towards that master of all literary forms, the novel. After all, unless your name is Stephen King, no one makes money off of short story collections. But as I've read and studied the short story form, I've come to see that I not only do I perform better with short stories, but I also love the form.

Novels have several failings to me, the most noteworthy being plotting. I admit freely that I am terrible with plots, which is one reason that I like short stories so much, because they don't really need plots. But even when I read plots, I find them boring. For example, I read Khaled Hosseini's novel [i[The Kite Runner[/i] a few months ago. It was an amazing book, and I highly recommend it to anyone. What I noticed though is that after 70 pages or so, a part of me didn't want to read it anymore. The writing was superb and exciting, and ironically that was part of the problem. I liked the characters so much, and I didn't want to keep reading because I knew that bad things were just going to keep happening to them. Eventually I told myself to stop being a pansy and finish the book. That's how novels work, bad things happen to people. So I finished it, and I'm glad I did.

But the issue is that bad things KEEP happening. That's the ultimate shortcoming of the novel format to me: You have to somehow make one character last for 300 pages, and the only way to make that happen is to keep having a series of disasters befall that character. It just get's tiring and draining after a while. I realized this shortcoming by the time I started Hosseini's second novel, A Thousand Splendid Suns. Once again, at page 70, I stopped. I could already see it coming: a disaster would befall the main character, and then the next 30-40 pages would be spent watching the main character as she recovered, until the next almost implausibly worse disaster struck. This time, I didn't pick it back up.

I'm not a philistine. One of my favorite books of all time is Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness. If you know anything about this book, you know that it's very short; it's only about 90 pages, which places it firmly within the realm of the novella. I feel that length is perfect; it allows for moderate amounts of plot, and major character development. I've always been more interested in characters than plot, and I feel that the modern novel drowns characters under a torrent of plot.

That's why I focus on the short story. I feel like it's exciting and immediate, and it can be as short or as long as it needs to be (I've read 30-page short stories before). It's the best vehicle for character development I believe, and that's where my interests and my strengths lie anyway.

This is just me venting a little, or putting my thoughts down on paper to sort them out. But I'm also asking you readers out there to give the short story a chance. You don't hear much about them; there are no collections of short stories on the New York Times Bestseller's list (excluding, once again, Mr. Stephen King), but the writers and the collections are out there. Pick up a literary magazine or an anthology and take a chance. You may be pleasantly surprised.
 

SkylerOcon

Tiny Dancer
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
5,216
Location
ATX
I agree with this post. Short story collections usually are very interesting and the ones that I've read have covered many different plots and topics. Everything from marriage to murder, many short story collections offer such a large diversity in characters it's hard for me to stop reading.

Even better are the collections that have multiple authors. I get exposure to many different writing styles which I think helps me with my writing. These provide an even greater diversity in plot, so these never seem to get old. I prefer to read short story collections over novels any day, because I like instant gratification. Being able to read one full story in about 15 minutes and being able to move onto the next story right after gives me a sense of completion, whereas novels take me one or two weeks to read through, and usually don't hold my interest long enough for me to even complete them.

Short stories > Novels
 

Tom

Bulletproof Doublevoter
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
15,019
Location
Nashville, TN
I've found that a good section of the enjoyment that I get from Novels is not necessarily from character development (growing from a stubborn mule to a caring kitty cat, or the bildungsroman) but from character interactions. I like to see how the 28 year old accidental arsonist who spent his young adulthood in prison lives with his new family, how his psyche ticks while he is at the grocery store, how he deals with meeting people just to forget their names. I like to run the gamut with the characters that really draw me in. We follow Marlow as he searches for Kurtz to find him near death, and we see glorious character in descriptively hideous surroundings, but I love to observe my characters and their quirks and their niches in multiple scenarios. I think that's why I like novels. They give you more to work with, and while more isn't always better, it can be more entertaining. :D
 

Smooth Criminal

Da Cheef
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
13,576
Location
Hinckley, Minnesota
NNID
boundless_light
I've found that a good section of the enjoyment that I get from Novels is not necessarily from character development (growing from a stubborn mule to a caring kitty cat, or the bildungsroman) but from character interactions. I like to see how the 28 year old accidental arsonist who spent his young adulthood in prison lives with his new family, how his psyche ticks while he is at the grocery store, how he deals with meeting people just to forget their names. I like to run the gamut with the characters that really draw me in. We follow Marlow as he searches for Kurtz to find him near death, and we see glorious character in descriptively hideous surroundings, but I love to observe my characters and their quirks and their niches in multiple scenarios. I think that's why I like novels. They give you more to work with, and while more isn't always better, it can be more entertaining. :D
I really don't wanna get slammed with an infraction for redundancy, but Tom pretty much summed up the reason why I prefer novels over short stories. There's an overwhelming amount of depth there that a short story can't touch on due to its brevity.

Of course, it's very hard for me to entirely "prefer" one over the other. If it interests me, ultimately, I'll read it. I've found that short stories convey powerful messages. Very, very powerful messages on love, on life, and on society as a whole.

Smooth Criminal
 

Eor

Banned via Warnings
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
9,963
Location
Bed
I really love novels. I think one of the reasons I don't write too much is because I have no idea how to write a short story. Every time I try to start I just think "What can I write that'd only take 15-20 pages?", and of the few ones I've posted I think most of them are basically tiny attempts at novels ripped to shreds. And as I don't really enjoy the physical act of writing too much, I never really have the patience to write out 200 or more pages.

I rarely read short stories, but I've always found novels to just give more. I do know the feeling about not wanting to finish a story because bad things happen to the characters, though generally only on a second read through (especially if there's a tragic ending), never on the first (though I do refuse to see Brokeback Mountain just because I know it'd be incredibly upsetting, same with Requiem for a Dream). I prefer characters, and the more I get to see a character the better, in my opinion.

Plus I mainly read historical fiction, which is great because it combines my love of "epics" without the bull**** that comes along with most of them.
 

Jam Stunna

Writer of Fortune
BRoomer
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
6,450
Location
Hartford, CT
3DS FC
0447-6552-1484
Here's a pretty good chatlog on the subject.

Chromatic Irony (12:35:06 AM): http://leesandlin.com/articles/LosingTheWar.htm

Chromatic Irony (12:35:06 AM): that's a great article

Chromatic Irony (12:35:07 AM): except for the end

Chromatic Irony (12:35:07 AM): don't read the end, it sucks

Rgs10168 (12:35:47 AM): okay

Rgs10168 (12:36:17 AM): In sad news, I'ma blogger now:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=211991

Chromatic Irony (12:38:11 AM): aren't you narrowing your audience a bit much?

Chromatic Irony (12:41:20 AM): also, quoting yourself makes you sound like a pretentious ***

Rgs10168 (12:41:58 AM): Isn't that the point of blogging? Besides, I'm too lazy to actually look for a good venue for blogging

Chromatic Irony (12:43:47 AM): i don't get what you're trying to say here. is it that "too many things happen in novels"?

Chromatic Irony (12:44:01 AM): full disclosure, I vastly prefer a good novel to a good short story

Rgs10168 (12:47:10 AM): Yes, actually. I don't really like plotting, doing it or reading it. Did you read the Kite Runner?

Chromatic Irony (12:47:29 AM): yes

Rgs10168 (12:52:18 AM): The part where Hasan's kid tries to kill himself, didn't that just feel like a tacked on plot point to extend the book's conflict (and the book itself)? True, there was a basis for him to react that way, but at that point in the novel I just sighed and said, "Pouring it on a little thick, aren't we?"

Chromatic Irony (12:54:55 AM): i didn't see it that way, no. but even so, i don't see how you can generalize from "the plot in this book was a bit contrived, thus plot is bad"

Chromatic Irony (12:56:40 AM): i'd say plot is just as vital to the short story as it is to the novel

Chromatic Irony (1:01:05 AM): and i also wouldn't agree with your characterization of the novel as "a series of bad things that happen." I mean, you can say that about the

Chromatic Irony (1:02:28 AM): about the Odyssey if you wanted to. in fact, that's a pretty accurate characterization of the odyssey. But i think that the perception of a novel as a string of vaguely related plot points strung together to reach a desired story length speaks more to the limitations of the author than the limitations of the genre

Rgs10168 (1:04:59 AM): I would agree with that

Rgs10168 (1:08:06 AM): I've always found plotting to be difficult, which is why I've never seriously thought about writing a novel. While plot is important to short stories, I don't think it's as important as plot is to a novel.

Chromatic Irony (1:10:41 AM): plotting is vital. without plot, you have nothing but a list of "Name:
Superpowers:
Backstory:
Weaknesses:" like we did in high school

Chromatic Irony (1:11:37 AM): on the contrary, it's vital. in novels you have all the space in the world to explicate the plot. in the short story, you must express the plot in a short frame of reference. usually this is done through character exposition

Rgs10168 (1:17:07 AM): My point is that you can write 5,000 words about a dog, but you can't write 50,000 words about a dog. It has to go somewhere else once you get to a certain length, or else you haven't actually justified the need for all that length

Chromatic Irony (1:17:39 AM): but 5,000 words about a dog doesn't make a short story

Chromatic Irony (1:19:11 AM): 5,000 words about a dog doing something is a short story. plot is the "stuff that happens." you don't write stories about people just standing around, you write about "stuff that happens." there always has to be a narrative, and without the narrative characterization is useless

Chromatic Irony (1:19:25 AM): nobody wants to read my D&D character sheet

Rgs10168 (1:25:47 AM): I'm not saying that plot isn't necessary for a short story, it is. That was a bad example I used. I am saying this: is it possible to "have stuff happen" for 400 pages without running into contrivances eventually?
 

Zombie Lucille Ball

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 22, 2006
Messages
3,823
Location
stop hitting me, Ricky
It does sort of sound like you're blaming the form for the shortfallings of some authors. At what point does "stuff happening" turn from good plot to "contrivance"? Is it a specific number of happenings? Isn't that pretty arbitrary? And doesn't that point more towards you getting bored with the story? If the plot points/stuff happening/sequences of events/WHATEVER is meaningful or emotional or entertaining or just plain good, does it matter?
The length of a novel allows for authors to further explore their characters and what their book is about, literally or figuratively. Sure, you could cut out two thirds of The Road and still (technically) get the point across, but with every extra page it digs a little deeper, cuts a little closer, etc
 

Jam Stunna

Writer of Fortune
BRoomer
Joined
May 6, 2006
Messages
6,450
Location
Hartford, CT
3DS FC
0447-6552-1484
There are definitely specific problems with Hosseini's books, despite how excellent they are. But I've noticed that my issues are pretty much universal whenever I read a novel. I always think, "This could have been so much shorter and said the exact same thing."

I guess my point is that one good plot point can suffice to give us a clear and compelling picture of a character (as in a short story), and in a novel we're usually dealing with four or five plot points, and that becomes overkill, for me at least.
 

CommanderCody08

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
149
You could maybe try reading some more nonlinear novels like THE SORROW OF WAR by Bao Ninh. It isn't so much about the plot (you get most of the plot in the first 40 pages) as it is about the characters. It was also very different, like no other book I've read.

I'm just typing this because of my Lit class though. Oh yeah we are starting the Shorth stories unit after break.
 
Top Bottom