How useful would be pivot uptilts as marth?

[jihaeng29]

I've been practicing pivot forward smash and grabs but started thinking about other pivot options. Marth's uptilt is obviously a fantastic move for both comboing fast fallers and killing floaties off the top when tipped. I've seen people use wavedash uptilt to follow up combos and maybe wavedash back uptilt, but does anyone use pivot uptilt for similar purpose or out of dashdance or something like that? I would imagine pivot tilts are freakishly hard but theoretically possible. But I'm just wondering whether a) people already use this, and if yes for what and b) if noone uses this, how viable this would be, atleast theoretically? I guess c) should I bother trying to practice it?

 

[Stride]

It would be useful, certainly. It won't be something you'll see any players implement anytime soon though; tilts can be done consistently out of empty pivots, but people have to learn those first.

In neutral I don't think it will be nearly as useful as pivot down tilt, since unlike that which works as a zoning tool which you can throw out relatively noncommittally while remaining safe, for up tilt to work you have to read your opponent moving into you (and are often easily punished if you're wrong). The ability to do the up tilt slightly faster out of a dash isn't so useful when you have to commit to it in advance like that (since you have to read the opponent anyway, you could just wavedash earlier and put out the up tilt at the same time it would be out if you pivoted). Using it as a way to cover tech options on reaction (in a similar way to how you can with pivot forward smash) may be more fruitful.

People use it, especially during chain grab combos, if they DI back and it's utilt percent you pivot utilt.

That's a turnaround up tilt, not a pivot up tilt.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

That's a turnaround up tilt, not a pivot up tilt.

My bad, I'm stupid lmao, too tired to think right now.

 

[-ACE-]

I call it a turnaround utilt if you do a tilt turn, pivot utilt if you do a smash turn (even if it's not out of a dash).

You have to turnaround/pivot utilt to successfully cg Fox if at 30-33% (ish) and he DI's away. You can't get the regrab on forward facing utilt.

 

[jihaeng29]

Just to confirm, empty pivot is the same thing as a flicker pivot? I guess I was thinking of true pivot like for pivot fmash with the C-stick which would make tilts very difficult but with flicker pivot, you have a bigger window to throw out your move.

 

[Stride]

Just to confirm, empty pivot is the same thing as a flicker pivot? I guess I was thinking of true pivot like for pivot fmash with the C-stick which would make tilts very difficult but with flicker pivot, you have a bigger window to throw out your move.

An "empty pivot" is to pivoting out of a dash and not entering another dash afterwards. There are 2 ways of accomplishing it:

The quarter circle method is moving the control stick from the turn/dash zone into the crouch zone within 1 frame. It can be done by simply being very quick with a quarter circle input from the middle of the turn zone, or like in the diagram below (where you start with the control stick lower and close to the border between the zones so you don't have to move it as far):

The other method is flicking the stick and immediately releasing it so it snaps back to neutral. As far as I'm aware that method is inconsistent and very controller-dependent (and also wears on your control stick quite quickly), so the quarter circle method is better.

 

[jihaeng29]

Thanks so much for the answers!