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How to use Luigi's moves effectively/ Discussion

MuraRengan

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
1,510
Location
New Orleans
Ok, as a somewhat decent Luigi player (not main though) after much practice and experimentations in 1v1's I think I can accurately list how Luigi's moves should be used to play him formidably. In a recent smashfest I finally got to experiment with my Luigi and I found that he can be played very well and is probably the new "pressure game" as Falco was in Melee. Luigi's design as a lightweight character has a lot to do with this, and, when combined with his moves, he becomes somwhat everpresent and unpunishable.

Aerials
The best things about Luigi's aerials are:
1. They can be used twice before touching the ground. This helps add pressure on the opponent because they won't have many openings when Luigi is in the air.

2. If used quickly and only once, they can be easily DI'ed out of. This helps to prevent sheild grabbing.

These two attributes make it so that Luigi's aerials are very problematic for the opponent to respond to because there are few openings, all of which are dependent on the player doing them.

Nair - Pressure/ Combo Initiator -As stated earlier, Luigi's lightweightedness is what makes his moves so useful. Luigi's nair is perfect for assuring that the opponent is occupied while you are safe from being sheild grabbed. It's animation length and Luigi's lightweightedness make this possible because even if you don't hit the opponent, you can still DI away, keeping you safe from sheild grabs. And even after that, you'll be in a perfect spacing position from your opponent as to where you can launch other attacks at the opponent without worrying about what the opponent will do next. There's also the rare, but uber-awesome, nair(x)+B combo which works on heavy characters such as space animals.

Uair - Pressure/ KO'ing - The uair is sort of a "momentum" move. It's best used prevent the enemy from touching the ground and keeping the pressure on. However, at about 120% (IIRC) it is one of his best KO moves.

Fair - Edgeguard - It's not one of his most useful moves but it does serve a good purpose when you need to ledge cancel into an attack and is also quite useful for edgeguarding. It's not wise to use it for pressure because it's much easier to avoid since it's hitbox doesn't last long.

Bair - Edgeguard/ Pressure/ KO'ing - It's best used as an edgeguard since it's got a pretty decent knockback and hitstun. It'll likely get the KO for most characters off the ledge at 100+%. It's also usefull if Luigi's back is facing the opponent, in this situation it's best to double Bair back and forward.

Dair - Probably his worst aerial. It's incredibly difficult to use, and has a small, short hitbox. The only time this is useful is if you've mastered the spike, which, I'm sure, no one has done.

"A" Moves

AAA - Pressure - Very good after a nair or other aerail. Most of your opponents will try to sheild grab you if you're close enough after an aerial and this move it the protection against that. Since Luigi's aerialshave low lag, AAA can actually launch before the enemy gets the sheild grab. It also has a good knockback that gives Luigi great positioning to keep the pressure on.

Utilt - Damage Racking - Luigi's tilts aren't his best attribute. The only one that's remotely important is his utilt. On fast-falling characters, such as space animals, it makes for an excellent juggle after a uthrow (or was it dthrow? I'll check later and edit) and racks up some good damage.

Ftilt - Not completely useless, but not nessary for play. It's not too important, if you use it, it won't benefit or hurt you.

Dtilt - Don't use it. It's hitbox is too small for it to be used effectively. It'd have some potential if it weren't so small, but, alas, you shouldn't use it often.

Fsmash - Ko'ing - Luigi's best KO'er IMO. It's quick and has ridiculous knockback at high percentages. It should only be used for KO'ing to keep the opponent from becoming familiar with it and predicting it. If used in this fashion, it'll help prevent some of those tough KOing times.

Usmash - Safety/Pressure/Ko'ing - It's also pretty good. It's quick and semi-powerful and has good knockback over 80%, and, best of all, it's hard to defend against or counter. It's safe overall and and is a Ko'er at high percentages. It also does that sliding thingy that happens when you run and usmash, which is good when well timed.

Dsmash - Ko'ing - Another one of his best KO'ers. It's best used against rolldodgers at hig percentages or in a situation where the opponent couldn't avoid it. Again, it should be used only for KO'ing s that the opponent doesn't get used to it.

"B" Moves

Fireball - Pressure - Like all projectiles, it's best when spammed to pressure the opponent. Simple as that.

Green Missle - Recovery - This move is Weegee's recovery savior. I'd like to make this completely clear: THIS MOVE MUST BE USED ABOVE ALL WHEN TRYING TO RECOVER, EVEN IF THE OPPONENT IS CLOSE TO YOU, DO NOT TRY TO ATTACK THEM, YOU WILL MOST LIKELY DIE IF YOU ARE FAR FROM THE LEDGE AND DON'T USE THIS MOVE. It's also a mindgame in itselfe because it moves so slow that people assume that it's weak and in rare instances, it'll hit an inattentive opponent and probably KO if at high percentages and charged moderately.

Luigi Tornado - Pressure/Damage Racking/Recovery/Edgeguard? - This is one of Luigi's best moves. It can move around left and right, it's movement is fast, it lasts long, it has many hitboxes, and it launches quickly. Approaching the enemy with this move helps to add the pressure by moving towards the opponent at high speeds. Not only that, but, since it has many hitboxes, it can disrupt the opponent's incoming attack. Also, because it launches quickly, there are many opportunities in which you can launch the whole attack on the opponent, which is a pretty good damage racker. This move should be used often especially against opponents with slow moves. It's last hitbox also also has good upward knockback which keeps the enemy for counterattacking you. This move probably has the most strategic value of all his moves. It's hard to discribe it's uses, but when you figure it out, you'll understand what I mean.

It's a very peculiar move for recovery. If used immediately after a jump, it'll give you some massive upward recovery when you rapidly press "B". But, if used without a jump or long after a jump, rapidly pressing "B" will make you hover for a short period.

I've also done some experimenting with this as an edgeguard. When done correctly, it can knock the enemy in a fashion similar to a shinespike, or send them flying under the ledge. It's best when the opponent is close to the ledge and you use the "hover" method. This use, however, it more trouble than it's worth becaus eit's very difficult to use consistently and only works on characters that have a set direction towards the ledge (I.E. Fox, Lucario, Ike.) You probably'd be better off without using it.

UpB (I forget what it's really called) - Lag **** Damage/ Recovery/ Ko'ing - This move is very, very, very, very useful against characters with laggy moves. The sweetspot is powerful and can KO at 80%. It should be used whenever the opportunity arises because of it's power and because it's hard to punish. If you can master the sweetspot, you will **** much lag and get easy KO's often. It's also necessary for recovery, but only after you've used the Green missle toward the ledge if you're far away.

Grabs

Fthrow - Pretty basic. Can sometimes be CG'ed from 0% if you're lucky. It also serves to keep the opponent off the ledge an at a good distance away. Not entirely necessary, but useful at times.

Uthrow - Pretty much same as Fthrow. It throws for a good distance upwards and keeps the opponent at bay.

Dhtrow - Combo Initiator - On heavy opponents, it's good as Dthrow into utilt, probably his most useful grab.

Bthrow - KO'ing - It KO's at high percentages and otherwise provides good distance off the ledge.


Feel free to discuss this in any way you feel. I'm not claiming that any of this is the concrete truth but I donthink it's pretty accurate. If you disagree, then discuss it here. If you have something to contribute, then post it here.
 

Vist

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 13, 2003
Messages
2,059
Location
Pasadena, Maryland
I'm normally too lazy to do this but I'll put in my 2 cents. I think you did a good job, but this is just stuff I think could be touched up on.

2. If used quickly and only once, they can be easily DI'ed out of. This helps to prevent sheild grabbing.
That's not DIing, that's just spacing...and spacing is always a big deal a higher levels of play whether or not the move is used quickly and only once. You kinda make more sense of that with this next part though..

Nair - Pressure/ Combo Initiator -As stated earlier, Luigi's lightweightedness is what makes his moves so useful. Luigi's nair is perfect for assuring that the opponent is occupied while you are safe from being sheild grabbed. It's animation length and Luigi's lightweightedness make this possible because even if you don't hit the opponent, you can still DI away, keeping you safe from sheild grabs. And even after that, you'll be in a perfect spacing position from your opponent as to where you can launch other attacks at the opponent without worrying about what the opponent will do next. There's also the rare, but uber-awesome, nair(x)+B combo which works on heavy characters such as space animals.
Space animals aren't heavy, but you probably think that because they are fast fallers. Nair can work very well as a KO move and it also works wonders on side-stepping fanatics.

Bair - Edgeguard/ Pressure/ KO'ing - It's best used as an edgeguard since it's got a pretty decent knockback and hitstun. It'll likely get the KO for most characters off the ledge at 100+%. It's also usefull if Luigi's back is facing the opponent, in this situation it's best to double Bair back and forward.
Bair is good for approaching and such which is what i think you're saying with that last line but I'm not sure. That situation of using double bair back and foward (if im picturing this right) isn't always such a good idea. Spamming aerials like that can really be predictable.. I dont know, I'm just invisioning luigi players I've seen that think it's best to throw as many aerials out as possible even if the other player won't be getting hit by most/all of them.

Dair - Probably his worst aerial. It's incredibly difficult to use, and has a small, short hitbox. The only time this is useful is if you've mastered the spike, which, I'm sure, no one has done.
I really like the dair. I can think of a ton of times where I feel like it works wonders; most of them being when the opponent is approaching and I can quickly hit them just as they come to where I was standing etc. I haven't gotten the hang of the spike yet in brawl compared to how it was in melee but it's still useful IMO.

Ftilt - Not completely useless, but not nessary for play. It's not too important, if you use it, it won't benefit or hurt you.
Another move I think you are probably underrating. It can come in handy with approaching.

Dtilt - Don't use it. It's hitbox is too small for it to be used effectively. It'd have some potential if it weren't so small, but, alas, you shouldn't use it often.
It's hard to pull off but sometimes catching someone rolling into it etc can pay off if they trip and you follow it up with a smash/grab/up B

Usmash - Safety/Pressure/Ko'ing - It's also pretty good. It's quick and semi-powerful and has good knockback over 80%, and, best of all, it's hard to defend against or counter. It's safe overall and and is a Ko'er at high percentages. It also does that sliding thingy that happens when you run and usmash, which is good when well timed.
Upsmashing out of shield is good too especially when upBing or shield dropping into something else may be too risky or slow.

Fthrow - Pretty basic. Can sometimes be CG'ed from 0% if you're lucky. It also serves to keep the opponent off the ledge an at a good distance away. Not entirely necessary, but useful at times.
By lucky I think you mean if they other player messes up the DI, but I really would not rely on that to ever work in a tournament match.

Uthrow - Pretty much same as Fthrow. It throws for a good distance upwards and keeps the opponent at bay.
At really low percents on like fast fallers & heavy characters it can kinda work into a combo like the dthrow. I still prefer the dthrow, however.

Bthrow - KO'ing - It KO's at high percentages and otherwise provides good distance off the ledge.
I love this throw. It kills way easier than it did in melee. Also, good players always seem to think it's a great idea to DI up or up/in against it at high percents to avoid a death off the side, but instead make it much easier to die off the top (and possibly could have survived if they hadn't DIed upward).
 

TechnoMonster

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
836
Vist is too good, and he's right, n-air kills me all the time.

Fireball is a terrible projectile to use more than a few times in a row, it's too slow and laggy but you can follow up a fireball with an approach or tornado because it's so slow.

The most important thing with luigi I think is to develop your ability to mix up attacks and timings, especially mix up your aerials and ground attacks and use them as baits.
 

rmporter35

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
30
Location
Canyon, TX
Wow... the Dair can spike? Is there a video of that anywhere? I could pull it off in Melee, but had about given up hope that it was possible in Brawl...
 

MuraRengan

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Mar 22, 2007
Messages
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Location
New Orleans
That's not DIing, that's just spacing...and spacing is always a big deal a higher levels of play whether or not the move is used quickly and only once. You kinda make more sense of that with this next part though.
I was kinda iffy about putting DIing there but I wasn't sure it was spacing either. Thatks for clearing that up for me.


Space animals aren't heavy, but you probably think that because they are fast fallers. Nair can work very well as a KO move and it also works wonders on side-stepping fanatics.
Sorry, I always seem to put "heavy" and "fast falling" in the same boat. I'll edit.

Bair is good for approaching and such which is what i think you're saying with that last line but I'm not sure.
Yeah that was what I was trying to say, I just worded it poorly.

I really like the dair. I can think of a ton of times where I feel like it works wonders; most of them being when the opponent is approaching and I can quickly hit them just as they come to where I was standing etc. I haven't gotten the hang of the spike yet in brawl compared to how it was in melee but it's still useful IMO.
In that case, I'll have to try it more often and see what situations it works well in.
 
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