How to do combos like pros?

[WwwWario]

Ok, I'm really upset right now. Before, I wasn't very focused on combos. I just enjoyed fighting against my brothers and using fun moves.

Now, after getting PM, I really understand how fun combos can be, and how fun they were in Melee. The problem is - I can't do them.

So I watched the video of tecniques in Melee (a 30 min video, with wave dashing, short jump, fast fall, Shield Cancel, and much more). I've practiced and practiced for several days now, while my big brothers were away; practiced Wave Dashing, practived short jump and shield cancel combination, and more, and practiced ONLY with Wario. I thought I managed to do it pretty well now, and my brothers came home today, and we wanted to take a match. (They haven't practiced anything in this, even though they've always been good in Smash Bros. I use to beat them maybe 5% of the matches we play). Anyways, I lost. I fought against one on one, and both. And when I fought one on one, they had all 5 lives left when I died. In both matches. And I always lost just as much as I did before.

Now my heart pumps so intense. I'm so mad right now. I wanna be as good as the people I see on Youtube. They just float across the field, and it seems like their characters move a lot faster and that their attacks last a lot shorter (Yes, I know about Shield Cancel. I'm talking about how fast they can do moves in the air). I'm probably complaining because I'm so frustrated now, but can someone give me tips, videos, a secret, anything that can make me better? I'm tired of practicing, I never become good in anything. Whatever we do, they're better than me. Someone? Anything?

 

[Oatmealski]

You need to practice. I knew nothing of the Smash community when I first started. All you have to do is find a player that is on your level or better and keep playing them. Know your character, know how their combo game works. Are you new to the competitive scene?

 

[WwwWario]

You need to practice. I knew nothing of the Smash community when I first started. All you have to do is find a player that is on your level or better and keep playing them. Know your character, know how their combo game works. Are you new to the competitive scene?

Yeah, I'm kinda new. I've always just played against my brothers. And even though I've tried to do combos, of course, I've always only had normal Brawl (and PM for a months time now), and I've never though of all of these tecniques, even though I knew about wave dashing from Melee. So, yeah, I'm new. Wario is my all time favourite in games, and he had gotten even more awesome in PM, so he's a character I would really like to become good with. But, it just feels like I can't get better
If I DID get better (or even actually good), it would be very fun to play against other people as well. But, online functions are shutting down very soon on the Wii, so... :\

 

[Oatmealski]

Yeah, I'm kinda new. I've always just played against my brothers. And even though I've tried to do combos, of course, I've always only had normal Brawl (and PM for a months time now), and I've never though of all of these tecniques, even though I knew about wave dashing from Melee. So, yeah, I'm new. Wario is my all time favourite in games, and he had gotten even more awesome in PM, so he's a character I would really like to become good with. But, it just feels like I can't get better
If I DID get better (or even actually good), it would be very fun to play against other people as well. But, online functions are shutting down very soon on the Wii, so... :\

Don't even bother doing wifi, the only way you are going to get good is through real life and netplay. Wifi really messes up player's timing. What I would do if I were you is make a thread searching for other Project M players. The best thing you could do is find a mentor to teach you how to play.

One day I walked into a card shop and I saw guys playing Project M, I had no idea what Project M was, but I asked to play and I played with them. I kept getting bodied, but I would keep showing up each weekend. I eventually got to the point where I am today, and I made three of my bestfriends.

 

[Swann]

A bit of background, first.

I'm a big brother. I know the other side of the spectrum. Years ago, I would destroy my little bros in any smash game even before I knew about competitive play, or had ever heard the term "wavedash." This is because I intuitively understood the game at a more meaningful level than they did. This sounds similar to your situation. I am not trying to insult you, but there is a high probability that your brothers think about the game very differently than you do.

Learning advances techniques like short hopping, L-cancelling, and wave dashing are not a magic pill that you swallow and say, "wow, this is so easy now!" In fact, I tell most people when they are just starting out--like you--that at first, these techniques are going to make you WORSE before you see any benefit from them. The reason the pros you watch can move so fluidly, and so precisely, is because they have dedicated thousands of hours to learning, practicing, and applying these skills against other people. In contrast, look at your own situation. Is it fair for you to think that you can achieve the same level of play from only a couple days of practice? This process takes time.

What will make you better is mastering "the basics." To play effectively at any skill level, you need certain fundamental skills:

1. Do you understand what your character can ACTUALLY DO at any given situation?
2. Can you make your character MOVE with a high degree of accuracy to where you actually want to be?
3. Do you understand WHEN to move, when it is safe to APPROACH and when you should be on the DEFENSIVE?
4. Can you make your character ATTACK with the same kind of thoughtfulness as I described in #2 and #3?
5. Do you understand the types of situations in which you have an ADVANTAGE, and can you create these situations out of a neutral situation?
6. Do you understand the best course(s) of action when you make a MISTAKE, and allow yourself to get into a bad situation?

There is MUCH, MUCH more to this series, but these are some of the most basic concepts, and they apply to ALL of the Smash Bros titles. If you want to improve at this game--if you REALLY want to get better--then thinking about these things are the first steps to take.

Something worth mentioning is that Wario is a very Smash-weird character. What I mean by this is: Wario's fundamentals are a little bit different than a lot of other characters. He benefits highly from certain things (aerial spacing, mixups) than others (wavedashing, combo knowledge, dash dancing, conventional stage control).

Last, head on over to the Wario forums, READ THE GUIDES there, and post if you have done your research but still don't understand something.

---

With ALL OF THAT SAID, yes, I can give you quick tips to do better, but I need details. What characters do your brothers play? What is something that you always get hit by or have trouble dealing with? Why does it seem hard to hit them? Feel free to just ramble. In the future, though, post topics like this (that have to do with PLAYING the game) in another subforum, like Project M General Discussion, or the Wario boards. Help and Support is for people who are having technical issues with the Project M mod.

EDIT: grammar

 

[WwwWario]

Don't even bother doing wifi, the only way you are going to get good is through real life and netplay. Wifi really messes up player's timing. What I would do if I were you is make a thread searching for other Project M players. The best thing you could do is find a mentor to teach you how to play.

One day I walked into a card shop and I saw guys playing Project M, I had no idea what Project M was, but I asked to play and I played with them. I kept getting bodied, but I would keep showing up each weekend. I eventually got to the point where I am today, and I made three of my bestfriends.

Thank you Yeah, I've played WiFi sometimes on Normal Brawl, and it's really slow. I mean, it takes half a second for the character to do the move I make them do x)

 

[WwwWario]

A bit of background, first.

I'm a big brother. I know the other side of the spectrum. Years ago, I would destroy my little bros in any smash game even before I knew about competitive play, or had ever heard the term "wavedash." This is because I intuitively understood the game at a more meaningful level than they did. This sounds similar to your situation. I am not trying to insult you, but there is a high probability that your brothers think about the game very differently than you do.

Learning advances techniques like short hopping, L-cancelling, and wave dashing are not a magic pill that you swallow and say, "wow, this is so easy now!" In fact, I tell most people when they are just starting out--like you--that at first, these techniques are going to make you WORSE before you see any benefit from them. The reason the pros you watch can move so fluidly, and so precisely, is because they have dedicated thousands of hours to learning, practicing, and applying these skills against other people. In contrast, look at your own situation. Is it fair for you to think that you can achieve the same level of play from only a couple days of practice? This process takes time.

What will make you better is mastering "the basics." To play effectively at any skill level, you need certain fundamental skills:

1. Do you understand what your character can ACTUALLY DO at any given situation?
2. Can you make your character MOVE with a high degree of accuracy to where you actually want to be?
3. Do you understand WHEN to move, when it is safe to APPROACH and when you should be on the DEFENSIVE?
4. Can you make your character ATTACK with the same kind of thoughtfulness as I described in #1 and #2?
5. Do you understand the types of situations in which you have an ADVANTAGE, and can you create these situations out of a neutral situation?
6. Do you understand the best course(s) of action when you make a MISTAKE, and allow yourself to get into a bad situation?

There is MUCH, MUCH more to this series, but these are some of the most basic concepts, and they apply to ALL of the Smash Bros titles. If you want to improve at this game--if you REALLY want to get better--then thinking about these things are the first steps to take.

Something worth mentioning is that Wario is a very Smash-weird character. What I mean by this is: Wario's fundamentals are a little bit different than a lot of other characters. He benefits highly from certain things (aerial spacing, mixups) than others (wavedashing, combo knowledge, dash dancing, conventional stage control).

Last, head on over to the Wario forums, READ THE GUIDES there, and post if you have done your research but still don't understand something.

---

With ALL OF THAT SAID, yes, I can give you quick tips to do better, but I need details. What characters do your brothers play? What is something that you always get hit by or have trouble dealing with? Why does it seem hard to hit them? Feel free to just ramble. In the future, though, post topics like this (that have to do with PLAYING the game) in another subforum, like Project M General Discussion, or the Wario boards. Help and Support is for people who are having technical issues with the Project M mod.

EDIT: grammar

Thanks for your advice! I think you're on to something with them being older and think differently. They probably think more clever than me, and see the posibilities here and there. From what it sounds like, I guess it will take years of hard practice to get good... :\ Well, since I can't even beat my brothers, I'm guessing it will be a LOOOOONG road for me. So maybe I should just stick to my normal, nooby style...

As for your question on where I get hit 'n stuff - well, there are several things. First of all, my favorite chars are mostly Wario, Ganondorf, Roy and Snake. I do best with Snake, but I think I wanna get good with Wario the most. And, the problems are:

1. I lack timing. I often find myself using moves either too late or too early, resulting in them hitting me instead of the opposite.
2. I use wrong moves at wrong time. I can use a stupid move for the situation, and then I miss, and I'm just there, open for an attack.
3. I miss many moves. It's often that I don't hit them. Very often, actually. But they seem to always hit me... Probably because the timing, as I mentioned. I choose the timing and the attack wrong, and I miss, and I remain vulnerable.
4. I don't really know, they just seem to hit me more, trick me more, have more control, etc etc etc...

And I'm very sorry for posting this in the wrong sub-forum. I haven't posted a lot on SmashBoards, so didn't really know where to put it :\

 

[Swann]

Don't give up! Really, anything is possible so long as you give it an honest shot. I bet that in a month you can, at the least, stand toe-to-toe with your older brothers. I know it's not the most impressive example, but I went from zero competitive experience to a tournament threat in about 8 months. I'm still not that great, but it was a VERY large improvement to go from last place to 9th at a local 40-man tournament. I was very proud of myself, it was a great feeling!

What you've written about is a good start. Even just listing the things that go poorly is a good focus tool. Instead of focusing on winning, I would suggest that the next time you play them... just take one problem and look at it pretty thoroughly. For instance, you could focus mostly on the actions you take that lead to you getting punished or counter-hit, any time that happens. After a few matches, you might discover that there are some habits you have that your brothers are exploiting. Don't be too eager to run to them, remember, you don't have to! One of the first realizations a lot of new players have is how GOOD waiting is. Ironically, one of the most powerful tools in the game is when you actively choose to NOT do things.

Try to separate your moves into easily-memorable categories, which I think is especially helpful as you learn and uncover more and more about the different uses for each move. "Moves that kill," "moves that set up into other moves," "moves to use in close-quarters," etc. Experiment a bit to see what you can do when you start thinking about the types of moves there are to use, and in what situations you can use them.

Do you live in an active smash region? Most places in the US have a Facebook group for Melee/Project M, or you can check the Regional subforum here. Finding other people to play against is key in the beginning stages of the game,\ because it exposes you to a wider variety of play styles, and because it lets you have a group of people you talk with about problems you face, or just about the game in general.

 

[Szion]

My idea has been knowing the character, and having an open mind.like, if you do links dash into up smash all the time you might miss out on doing 2 up tilts and some aerials. yknow? gotta experiment with L cancelling and really push the limit of the character.
For me, realizing that doing an up B with lucario from the ground, means that if i aura cancel, i can do it again midair. could mean f smash offstage into Up B to chase to the right, aura cancel, Fair, jump force palm em down, and then UpB again to get back to the stage. Lucario can get HUNGRY if you want to, and im all about being hungry n greedy for kills. So. Ehehehe

 

[Brim]

Really just what the first responder to this post said. One of the biggest things about Project M is not only knowing how to perform combos, but you can't really do that if you don't know your character and how their attacks hit it really just comes down to practicing it against the bots because while they're not perfect they provide decent practice partners. I'd recommend fighting against Lucas a lot; if you want to learn to be affective, you need to know how to successfully chase and pin down one of the most air-based characters in the game. And Lucas just so happens to be one of these characters, and considering the fact he's just so fast along with all that air mobility he makes a good target to fight against. But really, learning most of these things comes with experience, not just against bots too - against humans.

 

[5ully]

I would just like to point out how kind and helpful this community is. The fact that we can take the time and sit and respond to people with their problems is a great thing to see.

Now i have the same problem I have a friend that comes over to play and we have very different personalities when it comes to gaming.
He like to play for fun. Likes to just goof around and win by the simplest means. Knows nothing technical.
Me on the other hand. I like to be very focus, I learned wavedashing, L-canceling, all the little thing each of my characters can do. Try to combo and look as fancy and innovative as possible.

And what happens???

My friend wins. its honestly a 3/5 chance for him to win when i play him?

The dude honestly trolls me every time i play just what it seems like button mashing. Of course this enrages me to the point of where i refuse to get up from my seat until i win. But what Swann is saying makes sense. We havent been focusing on actually winning rather we focus on impimenting things that we wanna see us use like the pros do ( ie. wavedashing, L-canceling ect.) Sometimes we have to ease up and just play to play until the other stuff becomes second nature.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Ok, I'm really upset right now. Before, I wasn't very focused on combos. I just enjoyed fighting against my brothers and using fun moves.

Now, after getting PM, I really understand how fun combos can be, and how fun they were in Melee. The problem is - I can't do them.

So I watched the video of tecniques in Melee (a 30 min video, with wave dashing, short jump, fast fall, Shield Cancel, and much more). I've practiced and practiced for several days now, while my big brothers were away; practiced Wave Dashing, practived short jump and shield cancel combination, and more, and practiced ONLY with Wario. I thought I managed to do it pretty well now, and my brothers came home today, and we wanted to take a match. (They haven't practiced anything in this, even though they've always been good in Smash Bros. I use to beat them maybe 5% of the matches we play). Anyways, I lost. I fought against one on one, and both. And when I fought one on one, they had all 5 lives left when I died. In both matches. And I always lost just as much as I did before.

Now my heart pumps so intense. I'm so mad right now. I wanna be as good as the people I see on Youtube. They just float across the field, and it seems like their characters move a lot faster and that their attacks last a lot shorter (Yes, I know about Shield Cancel. I'm talking about how fast they can do moves in the air). I'm probably complaining because I'm so frustrated now, but can someone give me tips, videos, a secret, anything that can make me better? I'm tired of practicing, I never become good in anything. Whatever we do, they're better than me. Someone? Anything?

I love to see new, young players come in with posts like this. The reason is that I have a younger brother (two actually but only the youngest plays video games anymore). He's 14 now. We don't play often anymore because I've gone away to college, only every 2-3 weeks when I come home for a weekend, but when we did play, I very unkindly played mercilessly against him, and he rarely won. It seems he has no desire or interest in really beating me anymore at this point, and it saddens me that the only thing he ever gets competitive with me anymore is a Naruto fighting game.

How old are you, if you don't mind me asking? I ask out of personal reasons above, as well as to bare good tidings based on your response. Studies have shown that starting young is one of the major factors of becoming a dominating force in competitive scenes. It's especially so in chess. The other two factors, according to the chess study I'm thinking of particularly, are practice time and natural talent/intelligence. You are fortunate, in terms of getting good at smash that is, to have a competitive nature at a young age and be willing to genuinely seek improvement in the right places.

Regardless of your response and whether you choose to even make it, practice is key. If you really want to beat them, spend a lot of time alone watching videos online of good players. Pay attention to what technical maneuvers they use to achieve combos, as well as what they do to go from not even hitting their opponent, to getting the first hit, to fully comboing them/finishing off a stock. Remember to always L-cancel, and always jump-cancel your grabs. If your brothers are typical players, they probably dash attack a lot. If so, just shield when they get close, then grab them when they hit your shield. If they get smart and start going for grabs, start to learn to properly apply dash dancing and platform movement so you can avoid grabs, and then hit them when they miss one. Anytime the opponent is in a state they cannot move, whether they missed at attack, a grab, or landing from the air, get in the habit of punishing it with your OWN hit. From there, you can hopefully apply what you learn about your main (Wario) to determine how best to start a combo and keep them in a combo. Remember that what you can do to them depends on their character, as characters movement when they get hit depends on how much they weigh and how hard gravity pulls them down (fall speed). Perhaps if you shared what characters they main play and what their habits are, we can let you in on the best ways to avoid what they are doing and how to punish them properly for it.

Good luck improving, I hope you can beat them someday! I wish my brother could beat me. It would make playing with him so much more fun. Also hope to see you around here more often- getting better and getting good takes a long time. If your brothers are smart enough to adapt and counter your new knowledge, then you'll undoubtedly want more guidance on how to adapt for yourself.

 

[Burnsy]

Being able to combo in this game is like 15% knowledge of your attacks and options and 85% movement, and making it happen is all execution once you know what you want. In other words, practice a lot.

 

[Saito]

Now my heart pumps so intense. I'm so mad right now. I wanna be as good as the people I see on Youtube. They just float across the field, and it seems like their characters move a lot faster and that their attacks last a lot shorter (Yes, I know about Shield Cancel. I'm talking about how fast they can do moves in the air). I'm probably complaining because I'm so frustrated now, but can someone give me tips, videos, a secret, anything that can make me better? I'm tired of practicing, I never become good in anything. Whatever we do, they're better than me. Someone? Anything?

Oh man.

Keep practicing. I know you'll be able to beat them if you just keep at it. I come from the younger brother side too but the more you practice you will eventually pass up those older brothers.

My advice is not to focus on advanced techniques too much.

 

[Koga_]

Dedication.

 

[Broasty]

Hey dude, so here's something to consider about technical play: it's an investment.
At first you'll suck because you'll be so focused on executing the movement, that you won't think about how to implement it. Take baby steps on that: start with SHFFLs (Short Hop Fast Fall L-Cancels). Go on practice mode and practice it til you're comfortable with doing the SHFFL without thinking about it. Then go try to do it in games against your brother (or friends who play). At first you'll do a little worse, but in time, you'll have a spike in playing ability once the controls are natural. Also, watch videos of good Wario players playinf, it gives you a good idea of what you can do!

 

[Paradoxium]

I used to smoke my little brother everyday lol, i would even trash talk him, but he never gave up. On the rare occasions i do play him i kinda get bopped, like consistently 2 stocked. It makes me salty as ****, like when did he get so good lol

 

[Saito]

I used to smoke my little brother everyday lol, i would even trash talk him, but he never gave up. On the rare occasions i do play him i kinda get bopped, like consistently 2 stocked. It makes me salty as ****, like when did he get so good lol

Does your brother even play competitively?

 

[Paradoxium]

Does your brother even play competitively?

Well he doesn't plan on going to any tournaments but he can do all the advanced techniques, he mostly gets good at things just to show off

 

[Stryker]

This is actually something I am struggling with as the "bopper"

I have a roommate who has been really hype for smash since we watched the Smash Documentary together. I've played smash for years, but wasn't competitive. I just played brawl with friends for lulz.
Then we got into Project M. While my roommate still picking up the basics, my basics have been refined by the advanced movement and my revamped love for the game. So the problem becomes, do I just destroy my friend over and over, or do I let them win.
On one hand, I want my friend to enjoy the game in order to want to keep playing. Losing all the time isn't fun, I know that first hand.
On the other hand, if I let them win, they won't be learning as much, and they won't feel any real satisfactions from wins because I am just giving them away.

 

[Justkallmekai]

Combos for me will just happen, it comes from practice. It'll be 2 hits in like a day, and in like 2 weeks it might be 5 hits, ect.

 

[Saito]

This is actually something I am struggling with as the "bopper"

I have a roommate who has been really hype for smash since we watched the Smash Documentary together. I've played smash for years, but wasn't competitive. I just played brawl with friends for lulz.
Then we got into Project M. While my roommate still picking up the basics, my basics have been refined by the advanced movement and my revamped love for the game. So the problem becomes, do I just destroy my friend over and over, or do I let them win.
On one hand, I want my friend to enjoy the game in order to want to keep playing. Losing all the time isn't fun, I know that first hand.
On the other hand, if I let them win, they won't be learning as much, and they won't feel any real satisfactions from wins because I am just giving them away.

The greatest pain of being the best at something.

 

[DJ _ICE]

Its important to have good fundamentals before you start practicing tech skill. Pretty much exactly what Swann said are basic fundamentals. Here's a good quote by a smasher I adore. "Since the fundamentals are the core, the most important things needed in order to succeed, and there is not one simple answer to it. But the point is, that only a [fool] would think that being able to quad shine someones shield is that important, yet some people spend their time practicing that instead of what they (at least should) know is more important."

 

[-_Face_-]

This is actually something I am struggling with as the "bopper"

I have a roommate who has been really hype for smash since we watched the Smash Documentary together. I've played smash for years, but wasn't competitive. I just played brawl with friends for lulz.
Then we got into Project M. While my roommate still picking up the basics, my basics have been refined by the advanced movement and my revamped love for the game. So the problem becomes, do I just destroy my friend over and over, or do I let them win.
On one hand, I want my friend to enjoy the game in order to want to keep playing. Losing all the time isn't fun, I know that first hand.
On the other hand, if I let them win, they won't be learning as much, and they won't feel any real satisfactions from wins because I am just giving them away.

My roomate in college was the one that got me into smash. In two and half years of living with him I never beat him...not once. But dat fiyah doe! So he came over a little while ago (it's been a few years since we've seen eachother). Didn't exactly bop him....but got some games off him. Feels good man.... If your friends really want to play, beating them will just drive them more.