How to deal with overbearing projectiles/walls.

[ignore the fire]

After a recent tournament, I've noticed a huge hole in my IC game. I get ***** by projectile walls. I played a very good Link, and it was one of the most challenging/frustrating matches I've encountered. I tried a gradual approach, which doesn't really work because both ICs can't perfect shield the projectiles. I tried out camping him, which didn't work because one hit would separate the climbers and he'd **** from there (desynched IBs/blizzards/anything else=FAIL). The most difficult aspect of this barrage were the bombs. Getting hit with a bomb would instantly separate the ICs, and **** would insue. I tried grabbing the bombs with air dodges and ended up getting hit with an arrow or a boomerang. Basically, I tried multiple approach/defensive options and failed.

I believe the reason I had so much trouble is because I've never truly been out-camped with a wall of projectiles. I think a discussion of tactics for dismantling a wall would greatly benefit the IC boards because I doubt I'm the only one who finds this difficult.

I know Link looks like an easy matchup on paper, but it's probably one of the most difficult I've faced so far. I'd prefer to fight a good MK or G&W than fight a good Link (especially when he counterpicks Norfair). Please discuss some approach options or ways around his wall. Even some ideas for a counterpick would help.

This doesn't have to apply to just Link. Discussing anyone's projectile wall and ways around it will be beneficial to the boards.

Discuss.

 

[FrozenHobo]

no blizzards. blizzard does not stop projectiles. ice blocks or squall (depending on the projectile) work most of the time. snakes grenades and link/tink's bombs, however need to be caught/detonated as close to them as possible. this can be done with full jumped ice blocks timed right/ close up blizzards. otherwise, just shield, roll, and hope for the best.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

Power shield and advance. When they are close enough, grab them. The rest is up to you. If you don't CG, comboing to the max is your only option. Try the air for that.

Blizzard will only block the most minor of projectile types and Ice Blocks only work best on ground hugging ones...

 

[B0mbe1c]

I'm pretty sure ice blocks will cancel a projectiles momentum, so it is very good.

 

[FrozenHobo]

ice blocks also cancel out any energy projectiles (not 100% on pk thunder)

 

[ignore the fire]

I'm pretty sure ice blocks will cancel a projectiles momentum, so it is very good.

This is how I normally deal with excessive projectiles, but it's completely useless against projectiles that are higher off the ground.

I didn't really expect blizzards to work. It was really just a last ditch effort.

I tried slowly advancing and shielding. The problem is, if you shield a bomb it just bounces off your shield and could hit you again, all the while he fires off an arrow/boomerang or pulls out another bomb.

I would try comboing (even tho I could 0-death him with a grab), but his mindset is not to let me near him, so it's almost a hit and run strategy. Once he gets Nana separated from me (which isn't hard to do, especially with bombs), he mostly aims bombs at her and I either go after him (which results in me barely adding any damage) or I try to save Nana, which puts me back to square one.

Again, this is probably the hardest matchup I've had as the ICs. I can take MK and Marth no problem, but I'm clueless as to how I could beat this. I could always counterpick Falco, but it annoys me that I don't know how to beat it with ICs.

 

[lain]

projectile spamming craziness (see t.link and ****) it hard to fight for the ic's, but you have to be WAY more mobile if you want to try your hand at this kind of matchup. you can't stand around doing blizzard and iceblocks, so you have to airdodge around a lot and keep your spacing. let them spam and get within midrange, from there you must react to what they do.

 

[Little Devil]

There is a video of ArciveZero (Link) vs. ICs: http://youtube.com/watch?v=NecBd3eOnpc
You clearly see there what ITF means. At about 1:02 you can see that Blizzard dont stop Links bombs.

Another problem when against Link/Tink is the bomb again. If they manage to always have a bomb in the hand, you wont be able to CG them. Same goes for Snakes grenades and Tinks boomerang. Maybe even Samus bombs, I dont know. And what is an Ice Climber without CG AND without spam? Nothing.

 

[FrozenHobo]

And what is an Ice Climber without CG AND without spam? Nothing.

thanks for the vid, but don't come back. <_<

 

[Little Devil]

Okay, maybe not nothing, but most ICs ive seen use lots of Blizzards and Ice Blocks to force approach, and I would call that spam. I dont mean "spam" in bad sense, I only mean to build up a brick wall that leads into approach. In my view that is a core part of the ICs game. Thats why I said "nothing".

 

[FrozenHobo]

Okay, maybe not nothing, but most ICs ive seen use lots of Blizzards and Ice Blocks to force approach, and I would call that spam. I dont mean "spam" in bad sense, I only mean to build up a brick wall that leads into approach. In my view that is a core part of the ICs game. Thats why I said "nothing".

alright. fair enough.

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

Doesn't Blizzard stop Link's bombs when the ICs and Link are far away? On the video, that didn't show anything that his bomb did stop Blizzard. In addition, the bomb just attacked the ICs when they were close to Link, not the bomb. Since the bomb hit the ICs, the Blizzard didn't start attacking with full range. If Blizzard was to attack fully, it would probably stop the bomb from hitting them, or it might explode immediately. Hhm... or does bombs go THROUGH Blizzard..? Let me test. ;D

Edit...
Mhm, just tested it, and my info above was right and wrong.
When Link is just about far from the ICs, and then throws the bomb, the ICs' Blizzard stop the bomb and it explodes when the Blizzard keeps hitting it continuously. IF Link and the ICs were close enough with Link throwing the bomb with the ICs using their Blizzard, the Bomb goes through the Blizzard and the result to it is that the bomb and the ICs get hit by the bomb exploding.

 

[FrozenHobo]

all of my experiences have the bomb go through the blizzard regardless of distance.

 

[ignore the fire]

all of my experiences have the bomb go through the blizzard regardless of distance.

Either way, this doesn't put you in an advantageous position.
I actually just had an idea. Since Link can only have 2 bombs on the field at once, it might help if you catch (with an airdodge) and hold 2 bombs for as long as possible and go from there. Even if you smash throw them upwards, you'll still have a couple bomb-free seconds to capitalize on. Hopefully you could get a grab from here before he can pull out more bombs. It's worth a try at the very least.

Edit: I just watched the video, and it's pretty much what my match looked like. The only difference is that the Link I played never went for the kill unless he had me separated with bombs, so getting a grab became somewhat useless. If we were together, he would keep up the bomb pressure. There were a lot more arrows used in my match than in the vid, too. Just picture an arrow being shot in between bombs... not pretty.

 

[FrozenHobo]

ITF, you're talking about a couple seconds and thats assuming you can get both of them grab a bomb (which is nigh impossible by itself). yo may just need to change your play style to deal with projectile spammers.

 

[Little Devil]

The bombs explode after 7 or 9 seconds (I dont know it right now). If you add pulling out the second bomb, throwing and catching it you have abot three bomb free second left. What a good plan.
Of course catching bombs is good, but dont hold them: throw them back! If you "copy" Links projectile, your spam is equal or better than his. Since you can iceblock and throw his bomb back at the same time you have the majority of projectiles. So catch whenever you can, wait until it begins to flash red and THEN throw it at Link. This way Link has only one bomb at a time which means he wont be able to pull out a new one after throwing his. And he wont be able to catch your bomb because then it will just blow up.

I just found swordplays thoughts in the mathup discussion:

Links bombs will wreak havok. The best way to beat this is to learn to catch them and throw them back. This may give you opportunities and openings you would not normally have against a character who will probably be very mobile with bombs against you. Link can have 2 bombs out doing things so catch them both if you want.

 

[ignore the fire]

ITF, you're talking about a couple seconds and thats assuming you can get both of them grab a bomb (which is nigh impossible by itself). yo may just need to change your play style to deal with projectile spammers.

Getting both of them to hold a bomb isn't really that difficult. Just airdodge when it's thrown at you. Then airdodge when the other one is thrown at you. Since nothing is working at the moment, I'm willing to take a couple seconds over nothing...

I want to change my playstyle lol. I'm asking for help on how to do so. I know that mobility is the key here, I just need help on how to effectively be more mobile whilst avoiding as many projectiles as possible.

 

[FrozenHobo]

well cutting out CGs works for me.... don;t have to worry about bombs going off during a CG.... squalls are sex, so use those....

 

[ignore the fire]

well cutting out CGs works for me.... don;t have to worry about bombs going off during a CG.... squalls are sex, so use those....

Bombs>squall.
I'm not sure about the other projectiles... maybe they cancel each other out?