How much will Cloud affect competitive gameplay?

[Ravengeance]

So in my personal opinion I believe Cloud is a top 5 character. In 1v1's I think he is the 3rd best character behind ZSS and Rosalina. I think 1.1.6 legitimately will be the last official patch. But Cloud is still relatively new so his meta has had less time to develop compared to the starting roster. I haven't played a ton of Cloud (I never played FFVII so I'm not a fanboy) but what I have played of him he seems relatively easy to pick up and he seems quite fast for a swordsman. I feel like the existence of Cloud makes every other swordsman/swordswoman less Metaknight obsolete. I feel like Cloud makes marth, ike, lucina, roy, even corrin just not worth using. Not just bc of his speed and range and power but I think the key factor is his Limit Break. At a high skill level counters aren't a big part of the character's toolkit. It's been that way since Melee. But the fact that Limit Break can be charged both by using an ability and by taking damage and Limit Break can be used on a variety of moves makes it a very strong tool.

Since Limit Break can be charged using a special that alone forces characters to approach Cloud. Few characters have fast and ranged projectiles that would deter players from giving up center stage and going to side off to the side of a stage to charge limit break. Since limit break moves are so strong they are often used to as the means to KO an opponent and have substantially less start-up than a smash attack. I still feel ranged or fast characters can deal with Limit Break in a fairly effective manner.

I think the real strength of Cloud is in 2v2's. I developed this opinion when I saw Nairo would play Cloud in doubles instead of ZSS. 1.1.4 I thought ZSS was the 3rd best character behind Bayo and Sheik. 1.1.5 imo dropped Sheik below ZSS and 1.1.6 dropped Bayo below ZSS. So imo ZSS as of 1.1.6 is the BEST 1v1 character. So I was like how come a top 5 Sm4sh player (I think Nairo is the 2nd best Sm4sh player behind only ZeRo) who mains the best character in the game plays a different character for doubles?
I honestly think it's all bc of the Limit Break. In doubles Cloud has a lot more opportunities to charge his limit break. The faster pace of 2v2's compared to 1v1's also means all the characters take damage at a faster rate which also charges the limit break on top of Cloud's ability to charge LB individually. In doubles Cloud can back line and charge LB fairly easily. Cloud's teammate can simply play to prevent their opponents from approaching Cloud.
I don't watch a ton of Sm4sh gameplay or play it super frequently but from what I've seen/experienced it already feels like Cloud in doubles is very common.

So my questions are how much are we gonna see Cloud in singles? How much are we going to see Cloud in doubles? Is having a Cloud in doubles part of the optimal team composition? Will people continue to use Cloud with a higher frequency in the future assuming no further patches occur and Cloud doesn't get any nerfs?

 

[Floor]

This doesn't answer your question, but rather a comment on what you said. Cloud doesn't really make other swordsmen not worth using. I find it quite odd to say that. Plenty of characters have range without a sword, like King Dedede. Also i don't think it's fair to group swordsmen into a group/ they all have different playstyles. I main both Lucina and Cloud because they offer different things.

To answer your question, you said so yourself that Cloud is top 3 in singles, so i think it's fair to say you're going to see a lot of him. I don't think people really main characters just because they are good at 2v2s, so you're going to see him about just as often as in 1v1s i think. Maybe a bit more because many might have pocket Clouds that they don't use in 1v1s but a 2v2 is better suited for Cloud

 

[Geese]

Cloud is good in both 2v2s and singles, it just so happens that he is really good in 2v2s because of the whole limit charging while your partner distracts them and having someone help you get back on stage. He just gets 1.5 more benefits, and I say 1.5 because he has the whole limit charging in singles, but he is just so much better at doing it in doubles.

 

[Ravengeance]

This doesn't answer your question, but rather a comment on what you said. Cloud doesn't really make other swordsmen not worth using. I find it quite odd to say that. Plenty of characters have range without a sword, like King Dedede.

OK, that's fair. Cloud legitimately is pretty different. But I think the quartet of roy, marth, lucina, ike are kind of similar (especially marth, lucina). Like there's enough variance to keep them different. But like Marth is so good in melee and brawl compared to roy/ike it made using the other swordsman not that common. Of all the swordsmen in sm4sh marth is my fave to play but like bc I preferred marth's reach compared to lucina i always preferred marth to lucina. Granted they are far more similar than other sword users it just seemed that since other sword users aren't as good as cloud in singles or doubles people who mained marth/lucina/ike/roy would switch over to Cloud solely on the fact he's a better character with some similarities.

Obviously he's good so you will naturally see him in matches I'm more wondering if like Cloud's existence will kill off the presence of other sword users and to what extent. I probably didn't clarify that well so hope that clears up what I meant. Will people who use marth/lucina/roy/ike switch to cloud?

 

[Floor]

It's hard to say. I see your points though... look at Ryo... he's mained basically the entire FE roster yet hasn't really touched Cloud. The FE characters with swords (Marth/Lucina/Ike/Roy etc...) don't get used much competitivly to begin with so there's really a small sample size.

Yet, i mained Lucina and loved Cloud when he came out and mained him... so on one hand, you got a "no" from Ryo, but a sorta "yes" from me. I think it comes down to this...

Cloud has some similarities to Marth and Lucina in terms of playstyle so i think that's why i mained him. I think Cloud offers some things that appeal to Marth Lucina and Ike mains, so I think he could be the one these people switch to of they want a top tier main, but it comes down to the individual