Okay so my first question is does counter deal more knockback/damage?
Ness PK Bomb fully charged -> Shulk's counter -> Ness. Middle of FD
46% damage, ohko
Ness PK Bomb fully charged -> Toon Link (the other 3ds does not have Ness unlocked, Toon Link is right below Ness in weight). Middle of FD.
38% damage, barely any knockback (seriously like nothing)
So... interesting. The knockback was VASTLY increased (from barely moving an inch to Ohko). Damage was increased by 8% or ×1.21.
Just in case you don't know, damage is constant per character (and just to be sure I tested that too lol)
So how much does it increase damage? Is it a constant addition, a constant multiplication, both, exponential, or something even more complex?
Sheik's needle is good for testing both knockback and damage. 2% damage.
Shulk's counter to one needle does 10% damage. It also added 8% damage to the original damage that would have been taken. Coincidence? Let's find out! One more test.
Pikachu's neutral B does 6% damage at close range, 5% medium range, and 4% damage at the way tip of its reach.
Well... this is interesting. Definitely not adding 8% damage in this case. It's doing 6% damage, in fact. That's the same damage as Pikachu's attack is doing. I guess this is not as simple as +8.
Bowser's fire breath - did 10% damage. With one hit the fire usually does 1%. I tested it again and the counter did 9% damage. I decided to kill Bowser thinking it's due to hidden decimal places, but afterwards I dealt 8% damage.
The only explanation for that is the counter has a sweetspot. That does not explain Pikachu's neutral B though.
Rosalina's fully chraged Luma shot - 22% damage. Somewhat close range. At same range without Shulk's counter it does 16% damage. An addition of 6%. At this point I'm still thinking the difference is addition and different based off of where the Monado hits the opponent. Another possibility is it is based on how long between when the counter is used and when the move hits the counter. Perhaps Pikachu's neutral B is just special in some way - maybe because it is a projectile? That seems unlikely but who knows.
Toon Link's fully charged arrow at pretty close range does 11% damage. When Shulk countered it did 13%. However, I did make a mistake with Shulk and had to counter twice before the arrow hit me. I retested at the same range and the move did 17% when Shulk countered it. I think I realize how it works now. I think that along with the frame that the counter will work decreasing, perhaps the damage done by the counter decreases as well. This works in combination with where the Monado hits the opponent to determine your damage. I must have been overusing the counter when facing Pikachu earlier.
Testing Pikachu again - Shulk does 8% damage with the counter. Pikachu's attack still does 6%. What the hell?? This makes no sense. However, I'm able to confirm that the lower interval is all that changes too, since I retested it after using the counter repeatedly and got 9% damage (difference must be sweetspot again)
Well, I guess all I can say for now is that the damage is increased between 2% and 8% when Shulk returns the hit, and that 2-8% depends somewhat on a sweetspot. There must be some other variable controlling things.
Alright, that was a bit unsatisfying. Let's test out how the Monado arts effect the damage that the counter deals.
According to Shulk's metagame thread, Buster multiplies damage dealt by 40% and increases damage taken by 20%.
Earlier I found that Shulk's counter of a fully charged PK Bomb deals 46% damage and Ohkos. Just to make sure of that, I am retesting now. This time I have a sured way of making sure they are the same distance from each other. Ok...? I got 52% damage. Let's test again? 52%. Again? 52%. Again? 52%. -Ok this time I'm going to make sure to use the counter twice in succession. 46%!! Therefore, the difference from 52% to 46% is caused by using the move multiple times in succession. This confirms that there is a sweetspot, since I was getting different values when facing Bowser's fire. However, this does not explain Pikach's Neutral B.
Back on track... Shulk in Monado Buster should deal 72.8% (73%) damage (Pk Bomb) if only the attack of the counter is effected by Monado Arts, since Buster multiplies damage by 1.4. However, it is possible that Shulk will deal extra damage because he takes additional damage himself while in Monado Buster. If this is true, he will deal out more than 73% damage. Let's test ^.^!!
Shulk deals 73% damage! Looks like the amount of damage he takes does not matter, only the damage of the opponent's attack.
That's all I'm doing for damage. Now let's look switch gears and look at knockback.
The attack with Monado Buster did still kill Ness, but it had less knockback. This proves that the knockback dealt is effected by Monado Arts.
How does Ness's PK Bomb go from almost no knockback to an Ohko? It's a tricky quesion. Let's test how the counter responds to other types of attacks.
When countered Bowser's fully charged F-Smash at the range of touching each other, Bowser gets sent just off-screen. When Bowser uses fully charged F-Smash against another Bowser, the bowser gets sent just a little bit off of FD.
How I would explain it is that the hitbox of Shulk's counter has a decent base knockback, no matter what move hits him. This explains why Shulk's counter still has okay knockback when moves that have low knockback such as bowser's fire and Sheik's needles trigger the counter. I believe that the knockback growth of Shulk's counter is what is determined by the opponent's move, but it is increased to some extent.
I think that Ness's PK Bomb is an odd case. I think it may have barely any base knockback and it makes up for it with lots of knockback growth. The knockback growth is sent to and increased (seemingly multiplied) in Shulk's counter, and is made even more deadly because Shulk's counter does have a base knockback.
