How does combo-ing work in this game?

[SuperChar]

Hi
I play a number of other fighting games,and the way that things are combo'd is in two ways, links and cancels
Links are when the starup frames of one move are the same as the delay frames between the end of a move and when you're able to control your character
Certain moves can be canceled by other moves, which are completly dependant on that move on that character
So is this how combos work in Smash, or is it different?
Thanks

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Hi
I play a number of other fighting games,and the way that things are combo'd is in two ways, links and cancels
Links are when the starup frames of one move are the same as the delay frames between the end of a move and when you're able to control your character
Certain moves can be canceled by other moves, which are completly dependant on that move on that character
So is this how combos work in Smash, or is it different?
Thanks

Few things actually cancel in this game. You pretty much have to wait for ending lag of a move to finish before moving. However, the stun generated from a hit on an opponent increases as percentage is tacked on. Therefore, this expands the number of possible moves you can continue up with as percentage goes on. However, there is also a point where too much percentage prevents any direct follow-ups.

Smash I believe can be split into two combo categories (okay, only Melee) which are 100% guaranteed combos that are inescapable and those which are extended.

Due to the directional influence DI where you can control somewhat the direction your character is launched after being hit this can either extend the combo on you or allow you to escape combos depending upon several factors. However, it is enough that there is great variety in how an inescapable combo will play out. You might start your 0-death combo with the same move, but how it gets orchestrated differently depending upon how the person DI's all of your hits or even if you choose to a use a different move.

Even if someone escapes your combo they are often times left vulnerable in the air. Less vulnerable than when in direct stun still, but with enough limited options you play a very interesting game of how to defeat their defensive options and maintain your control over them by keeping them in the air. A good example is Marth in this game. At a point Marth will not be able to link 100% guaranteed hits, but his disjoint is large enough that he can beat most options against anyone who is air born. This means he can effectively juggle someone away from center stage and eventually into a blast zone.

tl;dr?
Melee combos require you to improvise nearly all the time and think about the next step you are going to take. There is hardly any string of attacks that will play out exactly the same. A good analogy is that do not think about Melee combos as something where your goal is to inflict the most damage. You have a ball and your goal is to juggle this ball back into the goal zone. However, this ball is going to react differently each time and try to fight back. Your goal is to beat out whatever options this ball chooses and keep on juggling it into the goal zone.

 

[Sutekh]

Essentially, when you hit someone they enter a state of "hitstun" where they are unable to perform any action with their character. If you are able to hit them with another move before they're able to hit the ground or become actionable again, that is considered to be a combo. If your opponent has used their double jump they become much easier to combo because they won't get it back until the hit the ground again, so you can more easily predict how they will travel through the air and you can continue to follow up. This is a very basic explanation, it actually goes a lot deeper than that, but that's pretty much how it works. The combos aren't as set in stone as they are in other fighting games, because it really just comes down to how you can string your moves together to keep your opponent from retaliating.

 

[MurphyPrime]

There are few guaranteed combos in melee. Melee is more option limitation than comboing. Like you try and make it so the opponent has limited options after an attack such that you can follow up with a move to cover the option.

So, with Marth, if you were to grab>up throw, then up tilt, the opponent now is in the air. From there you are trying to cover their options. They could jump to try and get out, which up air is better to cover. They could fall down to try and tech the ground, so waiting and grabbing can cover that. Melee is best described as a Sandbox fighting game (Quoting someone from the documentary). There usually isn't a flow chart to follow, so you just have to learn your limits. People usually like melee for it's unpredictable nature, at least that's what I think.

 

[SuperChar]

I think what I really should have asked is how do moves combo in this game, as in how do the moves in a combo come together to make a combo

 

[Pauer]

I think what I really should have asked is how do moves combo in this game, as in how do the moves in a combo come together to make a combo

It's hard to give a correct and still simple answer because melee is just that complex and weird.
Putting it simple:
You hit your opponent, they get percent, they're sent flying and can't move for a bit. The more percent they have when you hit them, the further they fly and the longer they can't move. If they can't move for a period of time that is longer than the move's animation (which happens rather quickly), you can hit them with another move.

This is explained a bit better in the melee documentary.

 

[pagedMov]

combos in smash actually take skill and prediction and aren't all muscle memory
moves don't cancel, unless we're talking about certain moves which can be jump canceled, like the shine, or moves that have IASA frames, like marth's down-tilt.
Combos in smash are completely dependant on 3 things:
1. The move or moves involved (angle)
2. Percent
3. Directional Influence

Basically whenever you hit someone, you have the opportunity to start a combo. Unless they're above a certain percent, in which case most combos won't work (unless you're Fox, shine has set knockback so it works at all percents). Combos in smash generally take a great deal of skill to keep one going longer than 3-4 hits because whenever you hit someone you have to take into account all of the 3 things listed above. You have to know at what angle the move will send the other guy, you have to know how far it will send the other guy, and you have to guess which direction the other guy is DI'ing. If you've played smash for more than ten seconds, you already know that some moves have less knockback than others. These low knockback moves are great for combos because it keeps them close, but generally have little hit-stun. High knockback moves tend to have a lot of hit-stun but send people farther so it's harder to follow up (some exceptions to this rule would be Falcon's dair, or Falco's dair.).

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Directional Influence is basically, you hold a direction when you get hit and then the angle you get sent at shifts slightly. However, this change in direction is just enough to be significant. An example of the effects of DI is in the spoiler below (the gif is pretty huge, FYI)

Spoiler

DI can be the difference between landing a crazy combo finisher and missing completely and potentially getting punished. You have to know how to react and how to punish different types of DI. A good example of this would be, if you're Marth and you're fighting a Captain Falcon. You hit him with a string of 3 f-airs, DI's in on the first 2, and you're about to go for the ken combo finisher, but he ends up DI'ing outward on the last fair. You should be able to react to this and not go for the dair, but instead try to keep him offstage. This is just one of many, many, many possible situations that involve DI and needing to be able to punish good DI and bad DI.