How does Bat Within work?

[KingOfRedLions]

I was rewatching the Bayonetta moveset analysis video and I was wondering: how does bat within work? The one phrase that made me wonder is "Bat Within protects Bayonetta even when her dodge move is about to fail". Does it mean that it actives even when you airdodge/spotdodge/roll? I don't think so because it seems waaaaay too broken, but I don't know what to expect. What do you guys think?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You know how if you counter a move too early, the counter will fail? Bat Within triggers when you activate Witch Time too early from what I could tell

 

[KingOfRedLions]

So when the guy says "dodge move" you think he's only referring to down b?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So when the guy says "dodge move" you think he's only referring to down b?

He said 'When Witch Time is triggered late' so yeah

 

[AeroLink_the_SoulMaster]

Bat Within triggers if you input too early or too late, based on what's shown in the video demonstration.

"her dodge move" is referring to Witch Time, and not her basic dodge moves. I believe Bayonetta's Witch Time animations are similar to her roll animations (back roll and forward roll).

 

[KingOfRedLions]

He said 'When Witch Time is triggered late' so yeah

I was referring to what he says at 3:20 https://youtu.be/zcl2PYLOhKY?t=200

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I was referring to what he says at 3:20 https://youtu.be/zcl2PYLOhKY?t=200

And I was referring to what he said about when it triggers

 

[KingOfRedLions]

And I was referring to what he said about when it triggers

Indeed, but he doesn't seem reliable since he doesn't say that it also activates when you do witch time early, so I just wanted other opinions. Thanks for the answer anyway.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Indeed, but he doesn't seem reliable since he doesn't say that it also activates when you do witch time early, so I just wanted other opinions. Thanks for the answer anyway.

You quoted the wrong person

 

[KingOfRedLions]

You quoted the wrong person

Nah, I was answering you.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Nah, I was answering you.

But I didn't say anything about triggering it early. If you see the beginning, Bill/Sakurai says 'When Witch Time is triggered late'. That's what I meant

 

[KingOfRedLions]

But I didn't say anything about triggering it early. If you see the beginning, Bill/Sakurai says 'When Witch Time is triggered late'. That's what I meant

Uhm, you said " Bat Within triggers when you activate Witch Time too early from what I could tell" in your first post. I answered by saying that it does seem to be the case but it's not very clearly explained.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Uhm, you said " Bat Within triggers when you activate Witch Time too early from what I could tell" in your first post. I answered by saying that it does seem to be the case but it's not very clearly explained.

You misunderstood me. What I meant with when you activate it too early is if you press Down B, but the opponent didn't attack yet. AKA a read or something

 

[KingOfRedLions]

You misunderstood me. What I meant with when you activate it too early is if you press Down B, but the opponent didn't attack yet. AKA a read or something

My bad then. Anyway, you're right, but it also actives when you press it too early as you can see from the trailer, when Bayo gets hit by Sheik's uair, the downB animation doesn't even come out. So I thought that that could be a failed airdodge OR inputting downB (I'm guessing when you take damage like in the game). As Aerolink stated, it's probably the latter.

 

[MzNetta]

If you successfully dodge with Down B, you will activate Witch Time.
If you input Down B too early/late and fail to dodge (and would then be hit by an attack), Bat Within will trigger.
This is based on the trailer footage and how the move works in Bayonetta/Bayonetta 2.

 

[Ixbran]

The thing I find most interesting is if you time it just right, you can activate both Witch Time and Bat within at the exact same time.

I mean normally she has a tiny bit of lag as she finishes the back flip when activating witch time, however if you can manage to learn to time it just right, using both bat within and witch time at the same time eliminates the end lag from finishing witch time normally, opening up some more time for combo potential.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The thing I find most interesting is if you time it just right, you can activate both Witch Time and Bat within at the exact same time.

I mean normally she has a tiny bit of lag as she finishes the back flip when activating witch time, however if you can manage to learn to time it just right, using both bat within and witch time at the same time eliminates the end lag from finishing witch time normally, opening up some more time for combo potential.

I can imagine the timing on this being incredibly strict, but it can be devastating

 

[Mr_Kreep3r]

Would you take a little damage if you activate both?

 

[Greda]

Would you take a little damage if you activate both?

You should. Though evading Bat Within + Witch Time would be best as there is no benefit for doing so compared to Witch Time on its own.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You should. Though evading Bat Within + Witch Time would be best as there is no benefit for doing so compared to Witch Time on its own.

Don't you mean no downside?

 

[Greda]

Don't you mean no downside?

No, I'm sure I said my previous comment correctly.

 

[Hinata]

No, I'm sure I said my previous comment correctly.

You should. Though evading Bat Within + Witch Time would be best as there is no benefit for doing so compared to Witch Time on its own.

Your original comment, from what I can see, says that you think there's no benefit to using Bat Within + Witch Time compared to just normal Witch Time, even though you said it would be best to use the former.

 

[Greda]

Your original comment, from what I can see, says that you think there's no benefit to using Bat Within + Witch Time compared to just normal Witch Time, even though you said it would be best to use the former.

? I've read this over 10 times now and I still don't understand where the error is. Maybe it's just me, I don't know.

If it helps, "You should" was the answer to a question, the second sentence isn't directly related to that.

Anyways, what I meant is that I think there is no benefit using Bat Within + Witch Time compared to normal Witch Time. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Hinata]

? I've read this over 10 times now and I still don't understand where the error is. Maybe it's just me, I don't know.

If it helps, "You should" was the answer to a question, the second sentence isn't directly related to that.

Anyways, what I meant is that I think there is no benefit using Bat Within + Witch Time compared to normal Witch Time. Sorry for the confusion.

Ohhhh. That makes more sense, then.

 

[Kon]

So Down B is almost as good as a shield option: only losing to grabs probably and by triggering bat within eating a few %. Still you get a movement option with bat within as you can decide to appear on the same place or somewhere else making it hard for the opponent to benefit of a triggered bat within. Bat Within seems to be nice to reset the situation back to neutral. probably bat within could be great in the air (except for characters with command grabs). I mean if you dodge a follow up with bat within, you can positionate yourself back on the ground or at least under your opponent tipping the advantage right in your favor.

This is at least what I think of the down b as Bat Within as it forces your opponent to not attack you in the air when something isn't true as they may risk to trigger either Witch Time or Bat Within. Both could give you an advantageous position.
There is one thing I'm still not sure about: It's yet unknown if the down B also has some sort of ending lag where you can get hit by a move without triggering witch time or bat within. If so: How big is the frame window of this? That's at least one thing I'll keep in mind and test day 1.

 

[Greda]

So Down B is almost as good as a shield option: only losing to grabs probably and by triggering bat within eating a few %. Still you get a movement option with bat within as you can decide to appear on the same place or somewhere else making it hard for the opponent to benefit of a triggered bat within. Bat Within seems to be nice to reset the situation back to neutral. probably bat within could be great in the air (except for characters with command grabs). I mean if you dodge a follow up with bat within, you can positionate yourself back on the ground or at least under your opponent tipping the advantage right in your favor.

This is at least what I think of the down b as Bat Within as it forces your opponent to not attack you in the air when something isn't true as they may risk to trigger either Witch Time or Bat Within. Both could give you an advantageous position.
There is one thing I'm still not sure about: It's yet unknown if the down B also has some sort of ending lag where you can get hit by a move without triggering witch time or bat within. If so: How big is the frame window of this? That's at least one thing I'll keep in mind and test day 1.

From what we've seen and what others have figured out I'm willing to bet Bat Within is frame 1.

 

[Trexbor17]

Hey just wanted to tell you guys that over at http://smashboards.com/threads/lets-talk-about-witch-time.426404/page-3 we've been talking more about bat within and by looking at parts of the video we have seen some pretty convincing stuff, like bat within being activated on dodges, go check it out

 

[Mothman]

in the bayonetta games bat within triggers right when you're hit by an opponent (and it triggers witchtime), dodging right in the last moment before an attack doesn't trigger bat within but does trigger witch time so I'm thinking theyll bring this into smash. So I'm thinking that if in smash if you trigger down b right when you're hit, youll activate bat within (without witch time of course), and if you do it right before the attack youll activate witchtime. It was pretty much said by Sakurai in his breakdown video and it will probably stay true to the games as well (minus the witchtime with bath within)