How do you get back onto stage "safely?"

[Wyles]

Ok, this going to sound awkward since Villager has the best recovery/a great edge game, but the title says it all. When on the edge how do you get back on safely? I keep trying mix ups like pressing R, getup attack, standard getup, jump away Lloid and then slingshot, press down/away -> Fair and the Up Air Stage Pokes and ledge jump -> down air, but against good opponents (dammit TearBear and your reaction time) they seem to get to punish everytime. It's even harder against fast characters and they shield while on the edge. I sometimes balloon to the other edge or maybe trick them by heading there and then back, but there's no sure fire way to get on I'm starting to think. Is there a way to get back on stage safely?

 

[Ludiloco]

Sounds like you're mixing up your methods, honestly from there it's all mindgames. Don't be afraid to just wait at the ledge and see what your opponent does.

 

[Darklink401]

I mostly just let go, jump back out of their reach, and slingshot, then lloid and slingshot, and if they get hit, I climb back up. If they shield, I repeat, unless I see theyre going for punishes, then I aim for the ledge, recovering glued to the wall, and buffer a getupattack. Works almost every time.

 

[Artmastercorey]

I think your doing everything right. I feel its a problem most characters go through you just have to bet on your strategy working. Like someone said sometimes waiting to see what your foe will do and react but I believe the standard left or right on joystick get up is the fastest. I know Jtails has a good video on this but you probably already know this stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNdlN6uRbNE

 

[Veen.]

I usually throw out Lloid when I'm aligned with the edge to distract opponents while making my way to the ledge. I'll fall below the ledge and then double jump or balloon up to the ledge in case my opponent can reflect Lloid. Then slingshot from the ledge.

If they go for an attack while I'm on the ledge, I'll usually drop and quickly use Uair, but from experience it doesn't work everytime. Watch out for ledge spikes.

 

[Sir $erpent453]

I usually throw out Lloid when I'm aligned with the edge to distract opponents while making my way to the ledge. I'll fall below the ledge and then double jump or balloon up to the ledge in case my opponent can reflect Lloid. Then slingshot from the ledge.

If they go for an attack while I'm on the ledge, I'll usually drop and quickly use Uair, but from experience it doesn't work everytime. Watch out for ledge spikes.

I basically do the same thing. Minus the part where I double jump onto the edge, as I usually find myself on the edge to begin with.

What I do next really depended on the location of the opponent. If they were no where near the edge for some reason, I would just do a normal get up. If they were close, I would attack them from the edge or jump behind them and attack from there.

 

[MadCanard]

If you've been tossing out lloids and notice that your opponent is the shielding type, then it creates the option to ride the lloid as well. You hit his shield and you'll bounce up and be back in the action. Obviously, riding the lloid is very punishable so you can't be predictable with it and if he dodges or moves out of the way you may find yourself just switching one ledge for another, but it's another option. One that can work.

 

[Wyles]

If you've been tossing out lloids and notice that your opponent is the shielding type, then it creates the option to ride the lloid as well. You hit his shield and you'll bounce up and be back in the action. Obviously, riding the lloid is very punishable so you can't be predictable with it and if he dodges or moves out of the way you may find yourself just switching one ledge for another, but it's another option. One that can work.

OK so I was fighting TearBear and he shields quite a bit and I tried to ride into him.

Spot dodged and chased. Punished. Pushed back to ledge. I mean, I get on stage with normal people. But top level players will almost always punish me unless they whiff.

 

[Darklink401]

OK so I was fighting TearBear and he shields quite a bit and I tried to ride into him.

Spot dodged and chased. Punished. Pushed back to ledge. I mean, I get on stage with normal people. But top level players will almost always punish me unless they whiff.

Ride lloid into them, but slow down before getting to them, see how they react, then speed up again. Most likely, they will either spotdodge, keep shielding, or go for an aerial punish. Any of those should fail if you slow down and throw out their timing.

 

[extremechiton]

Ah yes... riding a lloid into a shield has its merits.
Slowing down can catch thier spot dodge, if they roll back, you speed up.
If you hit their shield, you can hope they drop their shield in time for you to dair/nair them.
Or if they keep shielding, you can drift back and fair them, or forward and bair them.

 

[Kohak]

On the ledge you have 5 options. Ledge attack, get up, roll, jump, and fall to jump/airiel.

With villager your knee jerk reaction might be to fall jump fair, but at high level gameplay that gets very predictable, and considering that you lose your invincibility after the first time you let go of the ledge youre basically giving your opponent a free punish.

If you're getting punished too easily I would say your safest bet is jumping. Most people expect a roll or ledge attack. Jumping is safer since you can pull a lloid to stall in the air, and dair can be a reliable punish if they jump to intercept you.

It's all up to you though. Mix it up. Don't repeat what doesn't work. Find what works best, and good luck!

 

[Darklink401]

On the ledge you have 5 options. Ledge attack, get up, roll, jump, and fall to jump/airiel.

With villager your knee jerk reaction might be to fall jump fair, but at high level gameplay that gets very predictable, and considering that you lose your invincibility after the first time you let go of the ledge youre basically giving your opponent a free punish.

If you're getting punished too easily I would say your safest bet is jumping. Most people expect a roll or ledge attack. Jumping is safer since you can pull a lloid to stall in the air, and dair can be a reliable punish if they jump to intercept you.

It's all up to you though. Mix it up. Don't repeat what doesn't work. Find what works best, and good luck!

I'd also recommend dropping, and then jumping, because while it provides no invincibility, it will mess up people's punishes.

 

[extremechiton]

But if they read your ledge jump, the can aerial you.

 

[Darklink401]

But if they read your ledge jump, the can aerial you.

Of course, you have to mix it up, but that drop down into jump should only be done if you know they're expecting you to drop down and jump > aerial, so they shield.

 

[COLINBG]

Sounds like you're mixing up your methods, honestly from there it's all mindgames.

This. From what you're saying, it looks like you do mix everything up, and you know your options, so it seems to be a 50/50.


Lloid is great to help you recover, it forces them to do something. It doesn't matter what. They either roll, spot dodge, shield, or jump. While they're doing this, they can't punish you, so a well placed Lloid is pretty useful.

Occasionally, you can ride the Lloid. It's easily punishable, but if you do it randomly from time to time (like, once in a couple of matches/sets), it can really catch people off guard, and if it hits, it hits hard. You can also play mindgames with it by adjusting the speed. Don't do it against characters with reflectors though, because it's a free kill for them.

You can jump from the ledge and Fair/Bair as you immediately head towards the stage. I know zee does it a lot, and it's a great option. Similarly to Lloids, it forces them to do react, and if they don't, you get damage on them and a free return to stage.

If you play with customs, the Extreme Ballon Trip is amazing, because you're less gimpable; you can throw a hitbox if you want to, and have access to a sudden jump by releasing the two ballons. If the opponent in near the ledge, and you time it well, it can also damage them.

A standard gettup (pressing forward while hanging on the ledge) is always a solid option. Once you do it, you can immediatly jab/Ftilt (both are really fast), or spot dodge/shield (depending on if they usually go for a grab or for an attack when you getup). This is especially safe if they like to stand a little further from the ledge while waiting for you.

If they wait at the edge of the ledge (lol), you can roll on it and run away, run and Ftilt back towards them, or jump and Dair. These are all solid options.

Stalling by jumping back and forth from the ledge is great, because you can more effectively surprise them by randomly getting up, or wait for a good opportunity (ex. Lloid hits them). Be wary of characters who can punish you with a Dsmahs or Dtilt when you don't have your invincibility.

I personally find Villager to be amazing with recovery, both returning to the stage, and from the ledge onto the stage, since he just has so many options. I don't have much trouble doing it, but it's just about mixing up you options, really. Watching videos of good Villagers and what they do against certain characters/in certain situations is also helpful because you get concrete examples.

 

[extremechiton]

I find certain situations in which riding the lloid is most usefull:

If they are on the ground (as in tripped), riding the lloid limits thier options. If they do standard get up, lloid hits, if they roll back, lloid hits, sometimes if they get up attack, loid either hits, gets destroyed, or clashes and you pass right through leaving them unharmed.
Thier best option would be to roll forward, to which you can bait out sometimes by not riding the lloid, to which all options above repeat, except you have even more options to punish.

You can also catch air dodges into the ground, and even techs. Tech in place, lloid hits them, back tech roll lloid hits them, forward tech roll, may miss, but if you start riding the lloid at a certain distance, you can hit them as they roll toward you. And if they dont tech, the options above stil become valid.

(Imagine, customs are on and you combo counter sapling into ridden lloid)

Other uses: i guess you jump off stage and ride the lloid toward the stage to catch ledge options ( usefull if youve gone off stage to edge guard and ride lloid to recover)
If they stay on the ledge, slow ride until invincibility wears off and they get hit, standard get up, might get hit. Ledge attack, they get hit. Roll, they get hit. Jump, you either hit them on the way up, or on the way down. Ledge drop bair, would clash with the lloid in which it might not be a good trade for them.