How do you deal with extremely aggressive foxes?

[BauxFalcon]

Title says it all.

 

[Xyzz]

Focus on evading their attacks and punishing the whiffs with a grab.

 

[BauxFalcon]

So more movement and better dash-dancing are my aims here. My only problem is: what do I do when I'm pressured in shield?

 

[Xyzz]

Depends on what exactly they're doing.

If they're staying safe, you're looking for a way out; wd oos, roll and jumping to a platform are your go to options here.
If they're doing unsafe things, you should grab them.
If they're going for spaced things, fair OOS can often still catch them.
If they're crossing your shield, so they end up behind you, grab obviously won't work; dair can be fine, if they leave the opening (e.g. their dash attack)
If they're at high percents already it's a good idea to substitute grab with up-b oos.

 

[AirFair]

Make sure you know how to deal with being shined. Much like a fastfall ledgegrab, you can input down right as you slide off the ledge from being shined to grab the ledge. Useful.

In neutral, wall out their stuff with shieldstop nair and rising fair. As mentioned above, based on the safeness of their style at that moment, your plan changes. Usually, you will fish for a grab on the aggressive fox, unless they are aware of this and spotdoge and pressure accordingly. In that case, you have to set techchases and grabs up, with moves like dtilt. Something I like to do at early percents is if I can dtrhow/fthrow them and they will land close to the edge, I will start a chaingrab, f/dthrow and jab reset if possible.

Either way, neutral is not going to be easy, so your goal is to get yourself in a position where you can punish, and Marth's punishes on spacies more than make up for his weight.

punishes can just start with techchasing, uthrow onto a platform, or dtilt offstage.

pressure wise, I would say to buffer a roll.

 

[BauxFalcon]

Make sure you know how to deal with being shined. Much like a fastfall ledgegrab, you can input down right as you slide off the ledge from being shined to grab the ledge. Useful.

In neutral, wall out their stuff with shieldstop nair and rising fair. As mentioned above, based on the safeness of their style at that moment, your plan changes. Usually, you will fish for a grab on the aggressive fox, unless they are aware of this and spotdoge and pressure accordingly. In that case, you have to set techchases and grabs up, with moves like dtilt. Something I like to do at early percents is if I can dtrhow/fthrow them and they will land close to the edge, I will start a chaingrab, f/dthrow and jab reset if possible.

Either way, neutral is not going to be easy, so your goal is to get yourself in a position where you can punish, and Marth's punishes on spacies more than make up for his weight.

punishes can just start with techchasing, uthrow onto a platform, or dtilt offstage.

pressure wise, I would say to buffer a roll.

Thanks for the reply! It was very helpful (I'll try to implement this later today)

 

[Clint Jaguar]

Grabs are your best friend in this matchup. Don't throw them out aimlessly but definitely make the most of them. Every time I get a grab, I'll typically pummel them twice or three time before throwing them in a direction. Any direction is good as long as you know how to deal with their recovery. Good reads are the key. Sometime if you predict their tech option, you can throw them down or to the side and immediately punish with a forward smash. If you're brave and want to throw the Fox up, make sure you either attack or re-grab before they hit the ground. The longer you can keep an aggressive Fox immobile, the better.

As for general movement, keep your options open and try to play an equal amount of aggression and defence. Don't just run at the Fox with no fear but also don't waste time doing nothing. Keep the Fox on his toes with dash-dances and SHFFLs and always be on the look out for attack points. If you are being attacked by Fox, relax, DI effectively and fight back when or if the opportunity arises. The best way to get out of this situation is to predict what your opponent is doing and counter it with the best option you have, even if this means using the counter move. Counter is not bad if you know how to use it. Just be smart and it can save you from various deadly combos.

 

[BauxFalcon]

Grabs are your best friend in this matchup. Don't throw them out aimlessly but definitely make the most of them. Every time I get a grab, I'll typically pummel them twice or three time before throwing them in a direction. Any direction is good as long as you know how to deal with their recovery. Good reads are the key. Sometime if you predict their tech option, you can throw them down or to the side and immediately punish with a forward smash. If you're brave and want to throw the Fox up, make sure you either attack or re-grab before they hit the ground. The longer you can keep an aggressive Fox immobile, the better.

As for general movement, keep your options open and try to play an equal amount of aggression and defence. Don't just run at the Fox with no fear but also don't waste time doing nothing. Keep the Fox on his toes with dash-dances and SHFFLs and always be on the look out for attack points. If you are being attacked by Fox, relax, DI effectively and fight back when or if the opportunity arises. The best way to get out of this situation is to predict what your opponent is doing and counter it with the best option you have, even if this means using the counter move. Counter is not bad if you know how to use it. Just be smart and it can save you from various deadly combos.

So basically:
1) Dash dance aggressively
2) Make the most out of every combo opportunity

 

[Clint Jaguar]

So basically:
1) Dash dance aggressively
2) Make the most out of every combo opportunity

In essence but don't be too predictable. Dash dancing's great but do it too much and the Fox player will probably find ways to exploit it. Sometimes standing still, with a wave dash at the ready can be the best option. Remember, wave dashes into grabs have less end lag so they can be quite useful at baiting your opponent into making a wrong move.

 

[Jackson Cantin]

You need to exploit your dash to maintain space. Marth with a Fox on top of him can't do ****. If Fox is too close, there's no use swinging your sword, you basically have two options: shield hoping you'll get an opportunity to get out of pressure, or dash away.

 

[goateeguy]

Don't shield as much, as counter-intuitive as that sounds, because they'll just lock you up. It's not strictly-speaking safe, but throwing out a jab/first-hit side-B can really throw off the plan of a player who's already got a given button string in mind. Don't get hit.

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

Wall them out with dtilts, nairs and jabs in place, or, dashdance grab, wavedash back (or under nair if you feel like swagging out), or grab early nairs, or shield grab earlier aerials and approaches. Beat approaching jab with longer ranged moves, dtilts, powershield->something, or treat jab pressure like a much worse version of multishining on shield. If hitboxes are out, counter is an option. Pivot grab is *amazing* and so is shield stop grab. You can shield DI away from shines and aerials to the appropriate spacing that his normal pressure tools won't hit you and grab as well.
To gain back stage position, walk forward with dtilts, jabs to cover jumps. You can also roll around jumping at you, and buffer roll out of pressure. Shield DI/ DI out of drill and grab Fox.

 

[JukeboxSSBM]

Try to keep moving, but not forwards him, you can bait him into trying to grab if you shield at the right moment, then OoS fair or nair if you'd like. Remember to take any chance you can do get an attack in on him without spacing to close, say if he misses a usmash go in for some attacks, but don't dedicate too much. Safe, unpredictable. Basically.

 

[CFMV]

Light shielding is also good for getting you some breathing room when you're pressured in shield

 

[ChivalRuse]

SH retreating fair is pretty good if you need to just buy yourself some space.