How do smashers gimp recoveries that do damage?

[OrganicOrange]

Hey, everyone. I've seen countless videos of people gimping Fox's up special and side special, both of which actively do damage. So how do they counter these moves if they do damage? Isn't it if you try to counter you'll just get stopped because of fox's fire or illusion?
In this example, Sheik uses neutral aerial and gimps Fox's illusion. Shoudn't Fox's illusion hit Sheik first instead?

Spoiler

In this one, Sheik uses fair and gimps Falco's up special. Why doesn't Falco's up special hit Sheik instead if the attack was moving towards her?

Spoiler

Here, Sheik gimps Fox's up special. However, while it's charging, doesn't it also have an active hitbox as well?

Spoiler

Apologies, if I sound really dumb here. I'm new to Smash and some of this stuff is just confusing to me.

 

[-ACE-]

It's all spacing and timing. You'll completely override another hitbox if yours is more disjointed (usually). Once you have knowledge of how to time your moves so that the most disjointed part of the hitbox is out when a collision/exchange takes place, you'll win many more exchanges.

Disjointed = hitbox overlaps hurtbox, and then some. Example: Falco's dair is super disjointed and usually beats everything it touches.

Then there's ledge invincibility. Every time you grab the ledge you get exactly half a second of INV. So if you grab the ledge and let go +attack immediately, you'll basically override any other attack and win the exchange.

 

[Pauer]

What Ace said. Compare Sheiks fair with fox's up-b hitbox. It's pretty easy to hit fox without him hitting you. Also, fox's side-b hitbox is always behind him, so hitting him out of it isn't tough. You'll get hit by either if you miss though.

Spoiler

Sheik Fair

Up-b

Side-b

 

[necroTaxonomist]

There are some moves where the hitbox for doing damage is bigger than the hitbox for taking damage.
So you can attack a guy in a fire fox if you space the attack right so that you don't touch them with your character but you touch them with your attack.

For example, notice how the bair hitbox extends way beyond Puff's foot.

 

[Spak]

While we're talking about hitbox/hurtbox sizes, an interesting tidbit of info is that Marth's counter doesn't actually cover their whole body. If you perfectly space a D-Tilt/D-Smash (if the character being used hits low enough), it can hit his toes while they are countering.

Spoiler: Marth Counter

 

[OrganicOrange]

So long as your hitbox hits their hurtbox, before they can hit you then you'll be able to hit them without being hit yourself?

 

[桃姫 - Momoki]

I am going to also use this topic to ask a related question. I am having some trouble edgeguarding fox when he uses his UpB, I cannot find the right timing to do so (after fox finishes the "charge" animation of his firefox). I've tried edgeguarding with Peach's Nair, Bair and Fair, and I always mess things up and let the opponent recover. Is there a "best frame" to win the trade or should I just "git gud"?

 

[GenNyan]

I am going to also use this topic to ask a related question. I am having some trouble edgeguarding fox when he uses his UpB, I cannot find the right timing to do so (after fox finishes the "charge" animation of his firefox). I've tried edgeguarding with Peach's Nair, Bair and Fair, and I always mess things up and let the opponent recover. Is there a "best frame" to win the trade or should I just "git gud"?

Keep at it. There is no magic number I can tell you that'll help, but I guarantee you'll get the timing if you keep trying. Try using a Lvl 1 cpu for practice. They always Up-B at 45 degree angles, and it takes the pressure of a real person off.