How do I win with Dedede?

[p3ngw1nKing]

I'm a Dedede main, obviously. I'm quite competent vs most characters, but I'm sure everyone agrees that this matchup is heavily in Ivy's favor.

One of my friends switched from playing Mewtwo/Marth to Ivysaur just so he could beat me. I still do okay, but Ivy harasses me so hard! He combos me really easily and those seed bombs are really annoying.

My play style with the king is centered around punishing mistakes and getting off-stage gimps. But I have a lot of trouble getting in because of Ivy's range (especially razor leaf, grabs, and d-tilt). When I do get him off the stage he always comes back. Most of the time it seems very risky for me to try to gimp him off stage.

Any tips? What should I try to avoid?

 

[Swann]

Short answer:

Your entire gameplan should revolve around getting Ivysaur in the air on your terms. This means landing a grab (uthrow) or a launcher (utilt, nair) is of paramount importance. Ivysaur has a very large advantage so long as she stays grounded and able to play a meaningful neutral game (dtilt, leaf). Ivy doesn't have anything to deal with uair once you get her in a bad position.

Offstage you need to fair Ivy... she really doesn't have anything short of reading your fair timing that can properly deal with D3's fair offstage (you have multiple jumps, she doesnt. Wait her out and fair). Use waddle throws to control her aerial trajectory as she attempts to return to the stage--make her go where you want. But seriously fair her.

You didn't say anything about this but you should probably CC more. I don't feel like breaking down the matchup right now but feel free to ask more questions. If you have netplay, hit me up if you want to play practice games.

 

[p3ngw1nKing]

Thanks for the response! I really appreciate it!

I'll get to play him again Wednesday night, so I'll definitely try out some of your tips.

I may have exaggerated when I said he always gets back to the stage... I get most of my kills with off-stage fairs. He just seems to be able to tether to the stage from absurdly far away (like, just at the edge of the black part of the screen on FD), which makes it difficult to reach him in time.

Plus he will often just suicide vine-whip/solar beam to take my stock at that point. I'll try using more waddles in these situations to be a little safer.

I grab a lot, but usually do a d-throw -> f-tilt (or throw him off the stage if I'm close to the ledge). I'll start using more up-throws.

You're right, I probably don't CC enough...


Unfortunately I dopn't have netplay (I have a mac and the instructions aren't as simple as they are for Windows, and I just haven't had the time), but thanks for the offer. Maybe I'll take another look at it when I have more time to really sit down with it.

 

[Swann]

Plus he will often just suicide vine-whip/solar beam to take my stock at that point. I'll try using more waddles in these situations to be a little safer.

So I was assuming you were approaching Ivy along a vector that she has a hard time dealing with. You should be jumping off while she is nearing a height just above/even with the edge. If you're getting vine whipped or beam'd, this means you jumped out after her while she was well below the edge. At this point in her recovery, you should just be taking the edge and refreshing invincibility as needed until she inevitably tethers. Then, your only job is to wait until she is forced into her awful laggy ledgehop animation, and punish however you want (probably LH nair->anything or dair->grab->throw offstage are your best bets. I don't really know D3 though).

The laggy ledgehop animation is guaranteed at least 50 frames (nearly one second) unless the Ivy player ledge cancels, which I have seen exactly zero players do consistently. Even then, it's still basically impossible for the Ivy to avoid a punish (your aerials are huge and should cover all drift angles).

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Ivy's option coverage while drifting back to stage:
Fair covers slightly above, directly in front, and slightly below Ivy. IIRC, smaller than D3's fair range.
Leaf covers directly in front, lingers.
Seed bomb threatens a range about 3 Ivysaurs distance horizontally, some time in the future.
Uair and dair cover directly below Ivy.

 

[EpicMario99]

Wrong section, brah. This goes in King Dedede.