Melee How do I Improve in tournament and not get 0-2?

[Rice03]

Hi I am wondering how to improve on tournament. I can only go to a tournament once a week and I do not have a car to drive to other tournaments so others drive me to my weekly tournament. I also get tournament nerves although I have been playing for a year in a half. The tournament nerves come from winners mainly but I am much more calm in losers. My mindset is horrible while playing in tournament, I know that thinking about the value of the match is bad but I still do it because it is hard to control. I do not have a training partner or anyone else to play this game with besides my locals where I play a random person to play friendlies which I do better than in tournament. Last thing to note is that I do not have netplay because none of my computers can run it untill they get upgraded. I am 16 years old and what do I do to get good at this game

 

[Sutekh]

If you're consistently going 0-2, your tech skill is probably what is losing you most of your games. If you're flubbing wavedashes, missing techs, and mistiming your l-cancels, that's a great place to start, and it's really hard to build until you have a strong foundation. You want to practice until you're consistent and then continue practicing. Until you can get something 10 times out of 10 in practice without any sort of trouble, you will have a hard time pulling it off in tournament when the nerves start kicking in. If you don't already, download 20XX so you can visually see how often you're missing L-cancels while you're playing. Even only being able to play with real people once a week, you have 6 days in between time where you can practice on your own and hone your skills. Don't just go into a game with a cpu and forward smash it to death, but instead go into the game with a plan of what it is specifically you want to improve on, and focus only on that. Fox is pretty tough for newer players too, so unless you really have your heart set on him, I might suggest picking up Falcon, Marth, or Sheik to learn the basics before switching back to Fox.

 

[Rice03]

If you're consistently going 0-2, your tech skill is probably what is losing you most of your games. If you're flubbing wavedashes, missing techs, and mistiming your l-cancels, that's a great place to start, and it's really hard to build until you have a strong foundation. You want to practice until you're consistent and then continue practicing. Until you can get something 10 times out of 10 in practice without any sort of trouble, you will have a hard time pulling it off in tournament when the nerves start kicking in. If you don't already, download 20XX so you can visually see how often you're missing L-cancels while you're playing. Even only being able to play with real people once a week, you have 6 days in between time where you can practice on your own and hone your skills. Don't just go into a game with a cpu and forward smash it to death, but instead go into the game with a plan of what it is specifically you want to improve on, and focus only on that. Fox is pretty tough for newer players too, so unless you really have your heart set on him, I might suggest picking up Falcon, Marth, or Sheik to learn the basics before switching back to Fox.

I can wavedash and waveshine in a consistent matter. I know the basic fundementals such as spacing, punish game and mix-ups. I just cannot understand how the opponent is hitting me. It feels like I just get hit all the time and I have been playing since june of 2014 so I understand how the game works, but I do not know how to adapt.

 

[Rice03]

If you're consistently going 0-2, your tech skill is probably what is losing you most of your games. If you're flubbing wavedashes, missing techs, and mistiming your l-cancels, that's a great place to start, and it's really hard to build until you have a strong foundation. You want to practice until you're consistent and then continue practicing. Until you can get something 10 times out of 10 in practice without any sort of trouble, you will have a hard time pulling it off in tournament when the nerves start kicking in. If you don't already, download 20XX so you can visually see how often you're missing L-cancels while you're playing. Even only being able to play with real people once a week, you have 6 days in between time where you can practice on your own and hone your skills. Don't just go into a game with a cpu and forward smash it to death, but instead go into the game with a plan of what it is specifically you want to improve on, and focus only on that. Fox is pretty tough for newer players too, so unless you really have your heart set on him, I might suggest picking up Falcon, Marth, or Sheik to learn the basics before switching back to Fox.

BTW I rarely miss L cancels

 

[AirFair]

Besides grinding techskill while you are alone, if you could get the 20xx hack pack that would do wonders for your punish game. As far as mindset goes, there are a lot of things written on here and around the internet about motivation, and how to treat tournaments with the proper mindset.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_6o5NHvI9P8-qHp2M8w1gDzL_-JNonEE81Mh4ulY1PY/edit
http://smashboards.com/threads/2014-ssbm-compendium-of-knowledge-updated-1-2-14.339520/

check those out.

 

[Rice03]

I have the 20xx hack pack and I practice almost everyday for about 30 minutes.

Melee is probably the hardest competitive game that ever existed because only ones who make it on top are gifted and spend every waking hour playing this game. Also is fox bad on lower levels compared to other characters of that's the case then I might switch to Marth if he is easier. Plus if there is any easy part of fox, Marth or melee please let me know

 

[Rice03]

Besides grinding techskill while you are alone, if you could get the 20xx hack pack that would do wonders for your punish game. As far as mindset goes, there are a lot of things written on here and around the internet about motivation, and how to treat tournaments with the proper mindset.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_6o5NHvI9P8-qHp2M8w1gDzL_-JNonEE81Mh4ulY1PY/edit
http://smashboards.com/threads/2014-ssbm-compendium-of-knowledge-updated-1-2-14.339520/

check those out.

I have the 20xx hack pack and I practice almost everyday for about 30 minutes.

Melee is probably the hardest competitive game that ever existed because only ones who make it on top are gifted and spend every waking hour playing this game. Also is fox bad on lower levels compared to other characters of that's the case then I might switch to Marth if he is easier. Plus if there is any easy part of fox, Marth or melee please let me know

 

[Rice03]

If you're consistently going 0-2, your tech skill is probably what is losing you most of your games. If you're flubbing wavedashes, missing techs, and mistiming your l-cancels, that's a great place to start, and it's really hard to build until you have a strong foundation. You want to practice until you're consistent and then continue practicing. Until you can get something 10 times out of 10 in practice without any sort of trouble, you will have a hard time pulling it off in tournament when the nerves start kicking in. If you don't already, download 20XX so you can visually see how often you're missing L-cancels while you're playing. Even only being able to play with real people once a week, you have 6 days in between time where you can practice on your own and hone your skills. Don't just go into a game with a cpu and forward smash it to death, but instead go into the game with a plan of what it is specifically you want to improve on, and focus only on that. Fox is pretty tough for newer players too, so unless you really have your heart set on him, I might suggest picking up Falcon, Marth, or Sheik to learn the basics before switching back to Fox.

Last post before response

Also how long should I practice tech and should I switch to marth. Is fox a bad character at low levels and is marth an easy character. Does this game require an absurd amount of practice to get good or is it easier than I think it is. I just wounder sometimes what is it like to win a set since I do it very rarely. How is it that good players became good players?

 

[MurphyPrime]

Fox is fine at lower levels. I think your issue (if you are completely truthful about your mix-ups, tech skill which I doubt is as good as you think it is) is you may be easily read by your opponents. Consistently during a game you should be thinking about what is/isn't working. Why do I get hit after shorthop nairs? Am I misplacing them, am I too obvious, or is my opponent used to my style of SH nairs? You should be thinking about things like this at every possible moment (so in neutral, in edge guards, when re-spawning,etc.). Also being honest with yourself is a good start. You obviously aren't good, same with me and many, many members on smash boards. But you are better than some random person playing melee for the first time. So just keep working at it. Ask your opponent why you were beat, ask for advice when playing friendlies (which if you aren't playing friendlies at tourneys, start immediately). If you can, be ultra specific with questions. Like say "how do you keep countering my approaches? Are they too obvious or am I just not fast enough?" Also, your mindset about melee in general is flawed. Maybe to be the Gods you have to be gifted, but simply beating low level opponents requires thoughtfulness and practice on your end, nothing more.

 

[Sutekh]

The issue with playing Fox at lower levels is that Fox's biggest strength is his speed that he uses to overwhelm his opponent. If you can't really take advantage of that speed, he's easily comboable, his recovery is easy to ready, and most people have a lot of practice against Foxes. If you've been playing as long as you have been and still haven't been able to take a game in tournament, being able to see the game through the lens of another character could help you develop skills that you haven't been able to playing Fox. I was a Fox main before I started really getting into the game competitively, and switched to Marth because people told me that he was good to learn the fundamentals with, and I ended up falling in love with his playstyle. But even if you do want to switch to a spacie eventually, I think playing Marth for a little while could do you some good. His dashdance and wavedash are fantastic, and you're forced to learn proper spacing and how to limit your opponents options with your stage positioning and hitbox placement. The skills you would develop playing with Marth will make you better with every other character, and in my opinion, he's really easy to pick up. If you feel like you're hitting a wall playing Fox, switching to a more fundamentals driven character could help you overcome your slump.

 

[Rice03]

The issue with playing Fox at lower levels is that Fox's biggest strength is his speed that he uses to overwhelm his opponent. If you can't really take advantage of that speed, he's easily comboable, his recovery is easy to ready, and most people have a lot of practice against Foxes. If you've been playing as long as you have been and still haven't been able to take a game in tournament, being able to see the game through the lens of another character could help you develop skills that you haven't been able to playing Fox. I was a Fox main before I started really getting into the game competitively, and switched to Marth because people told me that he was good to learn the fundamentals with, and I ended up falling in love with his playstyle. But even if you do want to switch to a spacie eventually, I think playing Marth for a little while could do you some good. His dashdance and wavedash are fantastic, and you're forced to learn proper spacing and how to limit your opponents options with your stage positioning and hitbox placement. The skills you would develop playing with Marth will make you better with every other character, and in my opinion, he's really easy to pick up. If you feel like you're hitting a wall playing Fox, switching to a more fundamentals driven character could help you overcome your slump.

I have taken sets off of people before in tournament as fox. It just has been about 3 weeks since I was last able to take a set off of somebody. The farthest I had made it in tournament was losers round 4 and that didn't count because one of them was a dq for someone. I just need to know how to keep my results consistant like other smashers.

To see a video of me winning a set off of someone and 2-0 them here is a link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1Cr5kydv-s&index=1&list=PLZ4vM25jd0sNG_1Phd_bzFFeeT8rHj46A

I would highly appreciate if someone could analyze the video to see what I did right and wrong. Also I want to know what kind of player I am too.

 

[ViVio]

0:12 You space well and sheik whiffs a grab but you run away. You need to react faster and capitalize on these things.

0:28 You get a bair and you gain center stage, but you just ran to the other side after getting one hit on sheik. you can get more off of these hits.

0:30 I think you could have converted the waveshine into another shine and you just edgeguard from there

1:05 Sheik whiffs a grab and you back off again

1:12 Drill>shine runaway? convert harder. I'm not a fox main so I can't point out how to convert but I know you can get more off of that

1:52 You wd back and avoid sheik's ftilt which is good, you missed your short hop drill though but you had the right idea. Good spacing.


The rest of your set is pretty much the same stuff

6:39 You get another aerial>shine and you just run away lol



You have a decent neutral game. You play like a puff player getting your damage one hit at a time. Be more confident (not running away after you shine your opponent and getting them into a corner). Convert harder and get more off of your hits and stop resetting back to neutral so much. If you're not confident in going for an extra hit, you should at least keep center stage and keep them cornered towards the ledge. That game should not have been that close if you converted harder off of your hits.

 

[Rice03]

0:12 You space well and sheik whiffs a grab but you run away. You need to react faster and capitalize on these things.

0:28 You get a bair and you gain center stage, but you just ran to the other side after getting one hit on sheik. you can get more off of these hits.

0:30 I think you could have converted the waveshine into another shine and you just edgeguard from there

1:05 Sheik whiffs a grab and you back off again

1:12 Drill>shine runaway? convert harder. I'm not a fox main so I can't point out how to convert but I know you can get more off of that

1:52 You wd back and avoid sheik's ftilt which is good, you missed your short hop drill though but you had the right idea. Good spacing.


The rest of your set is pretty much the same stuff

6:39 You get another aerial>shine and you just run away lol



You have a decent neutral game. You play like a puff player getting your damage one hit at a time. Be more confident (not running away after you shine your opponent and getting them into a corner). Convert harder and get more off of your hits and stop resetting back to neutral so much. If you're not confident in going for an extra hit, you should at least keep center stage and keep them cornered towards the ledge. That game should not have been that close if you converted harder off of your hits.

Thanks will take the advice

 

[Gr33ns]

Hey just for some context my region(WA) is filled with tech skill monster(probably inspired by SilentWolf) foxes that move around super fast and can do every bit of tech skill really well, but they are lost in the neutral game. I feel like you have a similar problem. I will try to explain it as best as I can.

At 0:04 you nair towards him but do not even get close to hitting him(literally landed right in front of him) and since he suffered no shield stun it was the free-est grab in the world. Every aerial you throw out is always instant no matter the situation. That is wrong. You need the strong hit boxes or late/low hit boxes especially on shield. Also throwing out moves super early when approaching from across stage is SUPER committal and easy to read. I feel like you do things without considering the opponents position/options. If you want a few more examples of bad aerials :21, 1:39, 2:09, 2:17, 2:28.(all of these could have been crouch cancel grabbed and then thats your entire stock if the sheik does not mess up, or if you were playing against a higher level sheik)
At :29 when you get the drill shine, which was very smooth btw, you wave dash back instead of grabbing and up throw up airing(or even back air you did not hit many up airs(like 0) when he Di'd)

I want you to watch yourself from like :59- 1:25. You got a nair right at the start and he rolled to the edge of the stage. Perfect. He is cornered, and honestly that was a super easy roll read especially because your opponent has done it so much already... But then you back off, run to the opposite end of the stage and then approach? Fox is all about staying on your opponent and putting as much pressure on them as possible. In addition this kid just needled you like twice for 0 reason. Its like a billion frames of lag throwing needles on the ground.

Alright so lets talk about movement. You are basically wave dashing everywhere. Not only is that slower, but it also is just super telegraphed. Work on dash dancing and incorporating that into your game. Utilize the full length of the dash and remember you can turn at any point in it or extend it with a fox trot, but also be capable of doing extremely tight and accurate dash dances(dodging an attack by a pixel) and getting the pivot or jc grab.

TLDR(Though you really should read everything):Your punish game is bad(at least on sheik), your di is pretty bad,your movement is super linear and you dont use platforms well, and it seems like you do not know what to do in the match up. You need to utilize running shines, crouch cancels, and drill shine more. At least until sheik is outside of crouch cancel range. Make sure you follow up when you hit a shine.

This is my first post really giving advice to someone. I tried to be as fair as I could, and don't take the TLDR to heart, I just needed to summarize quickly.

 

[mythbust4000]

All I could say is git gud
I mean I have only got 0-2 once in north west majors but find out how you get hit and stop getting hit

 

[Low5_]

I think in the last few posts hopefully you've realized that it's a neutral game/punish game problem that you face. Personally I don't think it's really one specific thing that's hindering you, but more your desire to approach in the same two ways (SH Drill, SH Nair). Now these definitely aren't bad approaches, but sometimes approaching isn't the best option. Try catching on to the opponent's movement and mixing up your approaches.

I don't think I saw you bait the sheik once in that match. Fox is so incredibly fast that half the time you can dash dance outside of dash attack range and reliably punish most of the whiffed moves sheik might throw out with a grab/running shine. It might have been mentioned before, but it seems like the height of your ariels and spacing of your ariels was the same the entire match. What I mean to say is, there was never a point where I saw you do a late nair (safe if shielded), or over/undershoot your attack.

Your biggest problem seems to be the mental game and playing reactively. As Green's was saying here in WA there are a lot of tech skill monsters, and with fast enough reflexes and perfect tech skill, it might feel like you don't really need to work on the mental game, resorting to pure overwhelming of the opponent. I can assure you that playing people will progress your abilities in smash much faster than practicing alone. It is by no means a bad thing to practice, but with too much focus on tech skill, it can definitely be a hindrance on your mental game.

 

[JoeTango]

just play an easier character like shiek marth falco jiggs peach falcon etc.

 

[Rice03]

just play an easier character like shiek marth falco jiggs peach falcon etc.

I probably couldn't play any other character besides fox because I played my sheik before in tournament recently and got destroyed and that is my second best character. I have been playing fox since May of last year and I felt more comfortable playing fox than any other character. I just need a confidence booster In order to play well because of the bad results I been having recently.

 

[Rice03]

I just wanted to say thanks for everyone who left an response to help me in this difficult time. I will take everyone's advice with the time I have before my next tournament. You guys have been really helpful

 

[MurphyPrime]

In this difficult time? Dude, it's a game. You need to relax a bit I think. I'm not trying to be an ass though (Edit: it blocks ass? Lame. I was saying I'm not trying to be a jerk.), my friend has a similar attitude and he often struggles in tourneys as well. Set smaller markers/goals, like even lower than winning a match potentially (like maybe do a clean stock, or have a good combo each stock). If you treat the match like a friendly, you should be more calm and in control. When you stop thinking about how important the match is (which it really isn't) then you will probably play better/more consistent. If I'm completely off the marker for you, then sorry.

Just make sure you think about why you chose the option you did when re-watching matches, and think about if another option was potentially better. Everybody else basically summarized your areas of improvement, which one of them isn't really lack of tech skill, so grinding out tech won't necessarily help. Watching other play may help you come up with potential alternative approaches/punishes to try. Good luck to you and hope you get better!

 

[tsm2k420XX]

Practice, practice, practice. Play against many people, and don't be afraid to enter tournaments because you go 0-2. I went 0-2 in my first tournament, and I'm determined for it to never happen again, and you'll stop going 0-2 if you put in the work

 

[Rice03]

In this difficult time? Dude, it's a game. You need to relax a bit I think. I'm not trying to be an *** though (Edit: it blocks ***? Lame. I was saying I'm not trying to be a jerk.), my friend has a similar attitude and he often struggles in tourneys as well. Set smaller markers/goals, like even lower than winning a match potentially (like maybe do a clean stock, or have a good combo each stock). If you treat the match like a friendly, you should be more calm and in control. When you stop thinking about how important the match is (which it really isn't) then you will probably play better/more consistent. If I'm completely off the marker for you, then sorry.

Just make sure you think about why you chose the option you did when re-watching matches, and think about if another option was potentially better. Everybody else basically summarized your areas of improvement, which one of them isn't really lack of tech skill, so grinding out tech won't necessarily help. Watching other play may help you come up with potential alternative approaches/punishes to try. Good luck to you and hope you get better!

I didn't mean that I was emotionally struggling with the game. What I meant by "Difficult time" I meant to say difficult time in getting good results. This game is a very emotional game to a lot of people and some even express there anger, sadness and happiness. But I do get into a obsessive mindset of results which does hurt me in the long run.

 

[MurphyPrime]

My bad. Hopefully you see better results with what others said you can improve.