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How Do I Help Others Get Better?

STiCKYBULL3TZ

Smash Ace
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STiCKYBULL3TZ
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Many ppl across the Smash internet always ask, "How do I get better?" But I actually wanna know how can I help OTHER players to get better?

I have my own little crew made up of family and friends. I've been into Smash since 64 but they all got into it last year before Smash 4 came out. I gotta say...they've improved a lot since we first started but I'm still a couple levels ahead. Now a couple of them feel like they plateaued and aren't sure what to do to improve. I've been trying to tell them steps I feel they should take (know your character inside-out, learn MUs, patience, etc). I'm afraid some of the things I'm saying is a little abstract for them at the moment because they are overall unfamiliar with fighting games. Any tips on ways I can be more proactive in their learning?
 

blue_flavored

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When I try to learn learn a new character I always watch videos of the pros playing them cause it gives me ideas for what's good to use and what's not and combos. Also I believe playing someone better than you as much as possible is a great way to improve. From what you say you appear to be the better player so keep playing them, they will improve off of that alone. I know some people on here may be against it but For Glory isn't a bad way to train if you don't have access to a vast number of players. They'll see different playing styles for characters all the time and learn some new tricks.
 

Sean²

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Do these people actually have a drive to learn the game and get better? I have dealt with this in the past, like you want all of your friends to be on the same level as you, but a lot of them just want to play for their own enjoyment, whether it be in a competitive style or not. Teaching these types is very difficult because they don't have a major drive to get better or learn from their mistakes. They just want to play to beat their friends.
 
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STiCKYBULL3TZ

Smash Ace
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I can't say for ALL of them but a few of them definitely have that drive to get better. I can see the way they get frustrated when they practice but don't see any noticeable results. A few of them do a lot of research. We have a group we all communicate in. I'll admit they're not heavily involved in that group (maybe talk in there 2-3 times a week). I can't say for sure how much time exactly they put into Smash outside the group but they definitely 'sound' invested. Because I'm not around them 24/7 I have to go off of that
 

Ingoro

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Tell them to ask themselves the same question; "Why did I get hit at this specific moment?" So they get aware of why they're getting hit and what they've could have done the next time a similar situation occurs.
 
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Sean²

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I would have them just sit down and play. Tell them to fight you and/or other smashers till they understand why they are losing. If they don't back out after a few losses and want to keep going, this is a huge step in the right direction.

I've also noticed that the mindset involved with smash games is tough for some people to pick up. I used to consistently whoop on my friends and only two of them showed signs of the right mindset to be a successful smash player. The other ones...one was very motivated, but very negative and johned all the time, the other seemed more interested in playing for fun, even though he showed interest in the competitive style.
 

STiCKYBULL3TZ

Smash Ace
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Tell them to ask themselves the same question; "Why did I get hit at this specific moment?" So they get aware of why they're getting hit and what they've could have done the next time a similar situation occurs.
This is something I've done. I always remind them to save their replays and take notes. They usually don't understand why they get hit unless it's obvious or I constantly hit them in the same situation. That alone helps but when I add mix ups to the equation they get frustrated because they changed up their style to keep from getting hit but are now getting hit a different way. That's all part of the learning process tho. Thanks for the tip. I'll make sure to hit this point harder with them.

I've also noticed that the mindset involved with smash games is tough for some people to pick up.
I've noticed this as well. They understand what to do and how to play but when I start throwing around fighting game jargon like frame trapping, footsies, reads, etc., they get a little overwhelmed so I have to make everything more basic so they can understand
 

Octagon

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I'm in the same situation as you! In my friend circle only 5 of us play all the time and are very competitive and we want the others to get into it as well but they are offput by it cause they aren't as good as us. We try to have tournaments so we can all get better but its still hard to get everyone involved. I guess you just gotta have a certain love for smash to achieve greatness
 

STiCKYBULL3TZ

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I'm in the same situation as you! In my friend circle only 5 of us play all the time and are very competitive and we want the others to get into it as well but they are offput by it cause they aren't as good as us. We try to have tournaments so we can all get better but its still hard to get everyone involved. I guess you just gotta have a certain love for smash to achieve greatness
We actually created a crew. We have a ranking system. Because we all know each other, it creates motivation for everyone to be better than the next person. Once a month we have a crew tournament to re-evaluate the ranks as well as a challenge system if you want to attempt to change rank any other time. It seems to work well in keeping everyone motivated and wanting to get better. My brother and I have always held the top two spots since the beginning but 3-5 is always going back and forth which is exciting for all of us
 

DavemanCozy

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Tell them to take it slow. Smash isn't a typical fighting game, just mastering proper movement takes a ton of practice. When I say movement, I'm referring to recovery, running, walking, rolling, air control, etc.

If you are starting slow, one of the best things to explain to them is footsies, imo. This is one of the most important things in any fighting game, and also one of the most misunderstood concepts by many players (even some mid-level players misunderstand how to play footsies). Knowing how to play footsies is crucial for any character.
 
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COLINBG

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Smash isn't a typical fighting game
This. Smash is just.. different, you don't need to know much about fighting games to get on it.




I know it's kind of long a long read, and I apologize in advance for that, but I wanted to make sure I wrote everthing I could think of. I also hope it's clear enough, because it's really hard to explain, and english is not my first language. Let me know if you have any questions about unclear things in my post. Hope it helps.

There are basically two levels to smash:

1. On the surface you have the technical skill. Everyone can get excellent at it. You just have to train a lot, and be able to combo, to do things like pivot grabs, etc. It's just about learning the imputs, and you don't even think about it when you get good enough.

There's not really a solution for this one, you just have to practice. Spend time in training, and try to do everything perfectly. Practice in real situations too. I don't know what else to say about it, because it's pretty much all you can do.


2. Then, you have the psychological side of the game. This is where it gets interesting. Since there are so many options you can choose from at any moment in the match, it becomes a mindgame. When you watch high level play, this is especially apparent. The player who wins is basically the player who can read the other player the best. This is why a good player can beat a medium player even in a really bad MU.

As you said, knowing your own character, as well as other characters, is probably the most important step. When you know what your character can do, and what the other can do, you know the options of each player, and can proceed to play according to what you think is best.

The player who is at a disadvantage will usually play more defensively, but that doesn't mean you should fish for the kill, just let it come to you. If you try to get greedy it's easier to make an unsafe play, and get punished for it. So you have to know when to go in or not.

There's two ways you can get better at this.

First, learn the game. What I mean by this is, you should always try to register new data about the different characters, what works against a certain character, what doesnt, what a certain character can do in such a situation, etc. Even if they are not your main, it's useful to know this stuff for when you face a player using the character. Of course, it takes dedication because the game is very diverse, so it's indeed a slow process. Don't expect to become an expert in a week.

Then, learn to read. Everyone has certain habits, certain patterns that they unconsciously repeat during a match. Some people roll a lot, other like to grab a lot, other will repeat a certain combo over and over, etc. There's no trick to really learn how to read, you once again have to practice. Playing against better players is great, because it forces you to read well. If you don't read well enough, you lose. It's as simple as that. This is also why training against a CPU is not a good way to go; they don't learn how to adapt, so once you know their habits, it's extremely easy and you stop improving.

Good players know how to vary their game. If you watch high level tournaments it's easy to see. Even in a 3 games set, you see a huge change in the players' styles as they learn the other's habits. To vary your game, you have to know your options, and to know your options, you have to know your character, and the other character.

Of course, everyone plays differently, so what you learn in a fight might not be useful against a different opponent, because they might not play the same way at all. But when they do something you've already seen and know how to counter, you won't have trouble against it anymore.

I know it may sound easy when explained like that, but it's actually really hard to do in real time. Just practice again and again and again. Learning what you do wrong is also immensely helpful. When you try something and it doesnt work, stop doing it. If you have an habit of rolling a lot, and you always get punished by everyone for doing so, you have to force yourself to stop rolling. It takes control to do it, and you might find yourself rolling from time to time, but the more aware you are of it, the more you'll progress and stop doing it (Note that rolls are not necesarily a bad thing, but many beginners tend to roll too much, so it's a good example). Playing against a better player who can tell you what you do wrong is the way to go.

Now, about what you can do. To tell you the truth: not much. If they want to get better, THEY have to make themselves better. Try to give them tips, teach them new things. Tell them when they don't do good. Be careful though, many people can take it in a negative way, but they have to understand that criticism helps you to learn if it's done intelligently. They have to do the rest, practice, and they need to be WILLING to get better. And again, it takes time. It's normal not to see immediate results. Becoming a top player takes years, so to get discouraged because you don't see any progress is easy. You ARE progressing at all time, you just have to know it, and to do it in an efficient way.

That's pretty much it.

I'm aware it doesn't really (well kind of, but maybe not as you thought it would) answer your question, but if they want to get better, they really just have to understand all this. You can pretty much only guide them and make sure they learn things the ''right'' way. And since you're better, play against them. It doesn't matter if you're not perfect, all of you will still progress a lot. Alternatively, you guys can try to go to a tournament(s). It's great since you fight high level players, and it forces you to play in a somewhat more ''serious'' and rewarding way than when chilling with friends. And the Smash community is great, it's a good way to meet other players, share experiences, and mutually progress.
 
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DavemanCozy

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Learn the game. What I mean by this is, you should always try to register new data about the different characters, what works against a certain character, what doesnt, what a certain character can do in such a situation, etc. Even if they are not your main, it's useful to know this stuff for when you face a player using the character. Of course, it takes dedication because the game is very diverse, so it's indeed a slow process. Don't expect to become an expert in a week.

Then, learn to read. Everyone has certain habits, certain patterns that they unconsciously repeat during a match. Some people roll a lot, other like to grab a lot, other will repeat a certain combo over and over, etc. There's no trick to really learn how to read, you once again have to practice. Playing against better players is great, because it forces you to read well. If you don't read well enough, you lose. It's as simple as that. This is also why training against a CPU is not a good way to go; they don't learn how to adapt, so once you know their habits, it's extremely easy and you stop improving.
"Learning how to read" is not exactly how I would put it, but I get your idea. In my opinion, a great way of learning about your character, your style, etc. is to go on youtube and watch top level matches being played (check the character specific boards for video threads). This is one of our best ways of studying the game, you'll learn of many options your characters have available to them.

Don't just watch the character you play. Watch the opponent too. Think about why they get hit in a certain part of the match. Think about how they got another hit confirm, and how that hit led into a certain combo. If your matches have good commentators, they'll often pipe in with their own knowledge of the game and might mention a better option one of the players could've taken: so even if the match is of your character losing, don't dismiss it aside and listen to what the commentators have to say. Understanding tech and all the terminology will help you when doing this, as commentators commonly make reference to it. Smashboards is a great place to find this data.

This is, IMO, the best way of learning about the game's options and its variety it has to offer, by watching other players. Don't just watch your character either: watch videos of other characters too so you're not surprised by them if you encounter them in tournament.

This is how you get better at Smash: by studying the game.
 
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COLINBG

Smash Journeyman
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"Learning how to read" is not exactly how I would put it, but I get your idea. In my opinion, a great way of learning about your character, your style, etc. is to go on youtube and watch top level matches being played (check the character specific boards for video threads). This is one of our best ways of studying the game, you'll learn of many options your characters have available to them.

Don't just watch the character you play. Watch the opponent too. Think about why they get hit in a certain part of the match. Think about how they got another hit confirm, and how that hit led into a certain combo. If your matches have good commentators, they'll often pipe in with their own knowledge of the game and might mention a better option one of the players could've taken: so even if the match is of your character losing, don't dismiss it aside and listen to what the commentators have to say. Understanding tech and all the terminology will help you when doing this, as commentators commonly make reference to it. Smashboards is a great place to find this data.

This is, IMO, the best way of learning about the game's options and its variety it has to offer, by watching other players. Don't just watch your character either: watch videos of other characters too so you're not surprised by them if you encounter them in tournament.

This is how you get better at Smash: by studying the game.

True. I completely agree with you, thanks for pointing this out. Watching good players is indeed one of the best things you can do, because you can learn so much by doing it.
 

STiCKYBULL3TZ

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I really appreciate all of the feedback. I'll be using these ideas more often in my training with them. It should greatly help their game as well as improve mine with it. Studying is something I should do more often for me. I tend to play a lot and gather experience that way but studying would expand my knowledge even further. Thanks for that as well
 

Dustydog96

Smash Ace
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Jan 31, 2015
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tbh you can't really make them get better. Sure you can help them BUT ONLY if they want to improve to your level. It's all in your friend's desire, which you can I guess INSPIRE them by showing them twitch streams of pros and possibly watch evo 2015 with them. Maybe then they'll see what you see in getting good as smash. A lot of people aren't necessarily concerned with being tourney-good at smash though. And as was said earlier only care to beat friends and have "fun."
 

David Galanos

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Hey a fellow Georgia smasher. I recently did something with Pro player NAKAT called "Zero to Hero" where he takes his subs on twitch and gives a week of training with himself. He basically just points out everything you're doing wrong, and punishes you for them, and also tells things you should do that you are not doing. It helped me out a ton so if you can you should try to point out habits they have and things they are doing wrong, and try to punish them for it so they stop, and just give advice I guess, what they should do that they aren't.
 

STiCKYBULL3TZ

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Yeah I do a lot of punishing and I make sure to point out why they were punished in that situation. Sometimes they can even see themselves why they were punished which is good to see. I played with a couple of them locally for a few hours yesterday. One is seasoned in fighting games and pretty much understands all the terms and situations. He just wants to be better at Smash because it's not your typical fighter. The other one is new to fighting games and doesn't really understand all the fighting game terms. The funny thing is...he's actually better than the guy who plays fighting games. I think it's because he has more practice in Smash but he doesn't understand how he can beat him but not me. The concept of "Smash" just hasn't clicked in him yet. It's a bit scary because he's not a bad player so who knows what will happen once he "gets it" lol. But I think it'll just come with experience honestly. Eventually it will click
 
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