How do I handle aggressive aerial players?

[Odaroloc]

I main with Zero Suit, but there are times - especially recently - where players just somehow control the air against our own domain. Mainly, I struggle against Yoshi, Jigglypuff, and sometimes Mario. I guess my question is: how do I overcome their pressure?

Yoshi creates distance and then combos like a mofo; Jigglypuff chains short hop fairs like a mofo; and Mario just gets me... like a mofo. I try distancing with nair, but I can't time it all that well, nor zair. Dair seems to work well against aggressive players because they don't see it coming, but they always counter down-b. What strategies would you guys suggest? Does anyone else have this problem?

 

[DeLux]

Legitimately I think the Yoshi/Mario MU's are somewhat difficult/annoying, but not for the reason you're mentioning.

Maybe try exercising discipline and working with your shield and/or mobility defensive options to bait and switch. Remember, you don't have to counter attack / wall to control zones. You can always exercise block to try to catch them over committing and trying an OOS option .

Alternatively, try a pivot grab.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I had my fair share of problems with Jiggs as well. Shield and walling with fair and nair is the answer. Never overcommit and stay patient.
Work with nair followups. Space with f special to ensure space. Short hop a lot but try to keep a distance.
Against puff, I get most of my kills with up air.

 

[saturday night smash]

see I find my main problem while fighting in the air with zero suit is against Kirby his down a and his up b mess with me bad

 

[pichuthedk]

You need to be using more Zairs and possibly laser/side b after you bait them into the air because obviously Mario has fire ball/cape and Yoshi has eggs however I've noticed (despite my inconsistencies) that Zairs can actually be very useful for projectiles /aerial face rollers because it destroys them and continues.

Our Zairs is somewhat underused I'm because a lot of people who Mains zss before are not used to the extra option. We generally were about the side b or bust.

Practice your Zairs and practice your drop down -> double jump spaced Zairs when on the ledge we can actually get laser resets from the ledge if you,
1. Manage to space perfectly while getting as close as you can and
2. React /realize the weren't expecting it and didn't tech. Zairs basically auto cancels and I have a feeling I'll need to look into it more abuse it in MRS like Ness.

 

[Random4811]

You need to be using more Zairs and possibly laser/side b after you bait them into the air because obviously Mario has fire ball/cape and Yoshi has eggs however I've noticed (despite my inconsistencies) that Zairs can actually be very useful for projectiles /aerial face rollers because it destroys them and continues.

Our Zairs is somewhat underused I'm because a lot of people who Mains zss before are not used to the extra option. We generally were about the side b or bust.

Practice your Zairs and practice your drop down -> double jump spaced Zairs when on the ledge we can actually get laser resets from the ledge if you,
1. Manage to space perfectly while getting as close as you can and
2. React /realize the weren't expecting it and didn't tech. Zairs basically auto cancels and I have a feeling I'll need to look into it more abuse it in MRS like Ness.

Be careful with your zair though, because it has lag if you don't hit. Its kind of atrocious. Its got less range than it seems, but more range than a lot of disjoints. However, its really easy to dodge.

 

[quiKsilverItaly]

see I find my main problem while fighting in the air with zero suit is against Kirby his down a and his up b mess with me bad

Against Kirby I like to stay more on the ground, keeping him away with falling Nair and Ftilt (down angled, so it won't miss). I also like to chase him into the air, when he is directly above me because ZSS Uair beats Kirby Dair easily. You should respect the bair and fair, but you can catch his short hops with your own short hop fair.
I gave up fighting Kirby offstage, though.

I don't have that much experience on Yoshi, but you should not use that much B/Side-B, because he can easily jump above you and punish. I like to stay in movement and wait for openings, for example the Dash Attack is pretty good to get Yoshi, when he is landing.

 

[pichuthedk]

Be careful with your zair though, because it has lag if you don't hit. Its kind of atrocious. Its got less range than it seems, but more range than a lot of disjoints. However, its really easy to dodge.

I'm never really concerned about it's dodge ability, when your retreating or if they are max range not much they can do because we could always down b over them ,make flip jump have the least possible horizontal distance possible attempting to ground pound them [kick as well i guess?], or flip jumping away again .

Its got less range than it seems, but more range than a lot of disjoints. However, its really easy to dodge.[/quote]
it might have a bit of lag but depending how you do it might not even happen. I like to drop down and raising zair people through the stage and i guess if i notice that they got hit by it without even shielding i'll edge my way onto the stage more in most cases i guess (bracket) people will shield it sometimes or just not respect me cause i'm on the ledge... When that happens ill retreating rising zair managed to poke alot of shields with it xD.

Also I could have sworn zair only had the landing lag if you air dodged to do it not the grab button. And I am always aiming for the sweet spot hit box on that so thats why range is just meh.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I'm never really concerned about it's dodge ability, when your retreating or if they are max range not much they can do because we could always down b over them ,make flip jump have the least possible horizontal distance possible attempting to ground pound them [kick as well i guess?], or flip jumping away again .

Its got less range than it seems, but more range than a lot of disjoints. However, its really easy to dodge.

it might have a bit of lag but depending how you do it might not even happen. I like to drop down and raising zair people through the stage and i guess if i notice that they got hit by it without even shielding i'll edge my way onto the stage more in most cases i guess (bracket) people will shield it sometimes or just not respect me cause i'm on the ledge... When that happens ill retreating rising zair managed to poke alot of shields with it xD.

Also I could have sworn zair only had the landing lag if you air dodged to do it not the grab button. And I am always aiming for the sweet spot hit box on that so thats why range is just meh.

I played around a lot with zair yesterday and I can't remember ever having landing lag even when I missed.

 

[EnGarde]

Hey, apparently regular Samus can use zair to refresh stale moves. Can ZSS's zair be used similarly?

 

[pichuthedk]

I played around a lot with zair yesterday and I can't remember ever having landing lag even when I missed.

Yeah I feel like Zair only has landing lag when you air dodge first and then input it but if you just use your grab button (z) it's lag less which is why I brought up possible forced get ups when your advancing with it.

Hey, apparently regular Samus can use zair to refresh stale moves. Can ZSS's zair be used similarly?

Yes same thing since it's a separate move IIRC Nair is her only move that doesn't count to the stale move queue.