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How do i get away from fox's up throw?

smasher91613

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
348
Location
Hightstown, New Jersey (central Jersey)
I've generally been able to beat me lately but all today he's been winning..

One thing thats annoying the crap out of me is if he does and up throw he can follow it with an up smash and get 26% right away. I can't jump when i does and up throw and i can't move to the side, what can i do??
 

Phlemingo

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
590
Location
the mountains
You can't escape it at certain percentages. I would recommend that you move around as much as possible so he doesn't get a chance to grab you.
 

AlcyoNite

Smash Champion
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,332
Location
**** Triangle, NC
You can't escape it at certain percentages. I would recommend that you move around as much as possible so he doesn't get a chance to grab you.
qft; that, and do **** he cant get out of i.e. dair--> shine combos

fox and falco **** eachother; brolove, son
 

smasher91613

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
348
Location
Hightstown, New Jersey (central Jersey)
Sorry i didn't see that i got any responses

It's mad annoying he did it to me 3x today then did an over smash and killed me. I guess i just gotta make sure he doesn't grab me so much but its so easy to grab idk how i'm not supposed to get grabbed.
 

Da Shuffla

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
1,810
With Falco, the answer is usually to use more lasers. SHL makes Falco crazy hard to grab.
 

Da Shuffla

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
1,810
When you get close, I would Dair>shine. Shine will stop the grab. Unfortunately for Falco, Fox is insanely fast. Wait, how can he grab you if you just SHL'd him? Close range lasers lead into combos if you fast-fall soon enough.
 

Junpappy

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
1,439
Location
aZ
I would suggest practicing good spacing and using shuffle nair as an approach against grabs. A good Fox will run circles around laser spammers.
 

smasher91613

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
348
Location
Hightstown, New Jersey (central Jersey)
When you get close, I would Dair>shine. Shine will stop the grab. Unfortunately for Falco, Fox is insanely fast. Wait, how can he grab you if you just SHL'd him? Close range lasers lead into combos if you fast-fall soon enough.
well the problem is he shields pretty well. I go to do a sh dair into a shine and he just blocks and grabs.

I would suggest practicing good spacing and using shuffle nair as an approach against grabs. A good Fox will run circles around laser spammers.
Yea it is hard to get the lasers when he's fox but i do well with them against his other characters. i'll try shuffling nairs but i still haven't gotten shuffling completely down yet

shffl nair or laser into grab...grab counter *****es
another one i'll have to try, thanks.


one thing is that every time theres any delay in my movements (like if i don't L cancel or even if i just fall from an attack) he's right there to grab me.
 

AlcyoNite

Smash Champion
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,332
Location
**** Triangle, NC
There is no one solution to ur problems. Watch recent videos of good falcos (forward shiz chops pc) and ask urself "y isnt HE getting hit by 4 smashes in a row and getting grabbed like i am" etc. u need to see into how better players change their game up to adapt. There is no "perfect" way to get around grabs. U need to avoid them, but running away the whole time will not win u a match.

How do u solve this problem? Like i said, there is no ONE way; watch how effective better players are at moving about the stage and minimizing falco's weaknesses. Ill put some good falco v fox matches at the bottom of my post for ur convenience.

Oh...and no whining about lack of tech skill ("i cant lazer"); u MUST lazer; period.
KDJ v PC(Falco)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR-UOt58arw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5fiYQYS2jo&mode=related&search=
Shiz v Fenrir (Both chars get kills by doing stuff that both characters virtually "cant get out of")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzt5f_e8RfQ
 

smasher91613

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
348
Location
Hightstown, New Jersey (central Jersey)
There is no one solution to ur problems. Watch recent videos of good falcos (forward shiz chops pc) and ask urself "y isnt HE getting hit by 4 smashes in a row and getting grabbed like i am" etc. u need to see into how better players change their game up to adapt. There is no "perfect" way to get around grabs. U need to avoid them, but running away the whole time will not win u a match.

How do u solve this problem? Like i said, there is no ONE way; watch how effective better players are at moving about the stage and minimizing falco's weaknesses. Ill put some good falco v fox matches at the bottom of my post for ur convenience.

Oh...and no whining about lack of tech skill ("i cant lazer"); u MUST lazer; period.
KDJ v PC(Falco)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR-UOt58arw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5fiYQYS2jo&mode=related&search=
Shiz v Fenrir (Both chars get kills by doing stuff that both characters virtually "cant get out of")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzt5f_e8RfQ
Thanks a lot for the links i'll watch some now. I really do have to get those things down like you said. A few things i'd say i need to work on are l-canceling more, using wavedashing in a battle, and tilts..i never do tilts
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
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6,454
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Corneria, Lylat System
Thanks a lot for the links i'll watch some now. I really do have to get those things down like you said. A few things i'd say i need to work on are l-canceling more, using wavedashing in a battle, and tilts..i never do tilts
Remember that you can combo other things after an l-canceled aerial.

Dair->utilt

Dair->grab

Dair->dsmash


You can work these into your pillar combos to make your game more diverse.
 

AlcyoNite

Smash Champion
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,332
Location
**** Triangle, NC
yea i almost always shine which is somewhat predictable, i'll definitely try those later

I used to be able to start off something by doing a dthrow into a shine but it seems like you can easily roll away from that
While u can try other things, remember that Falco is special: if u land it correctly, his Dair will get you a guaranteed shine combo at lower percents. Master that first. Once you get that skill down, u should naturally build up the courage AND technique to add other things into ur combos. That's what is so beautiful about falco (and what makes Bawllz falco so hated). While predictable, the only thing a fox can do out of a correctly executed drill shine is DI, but you, ideally, should be able to follow DI.

Ahh the d-throw; vs. a not-so-experienced fox, d-throw can be a quasi-chaingrab (d-throw-->re-grab-->d-throw). i suppose you could take advantage of the nubby fox and exploit the d-throw, but it is very likely that the fox knows how to get out. Lesson here is that at upper levels of play DONT D-THROW. Ur throw options are highly situational; ull mostly u-throw to shine or aerial, or f-throw off the stage; granted, some like to mix it up to maintain unpredictability (ie pull a "bombsoldier and d-throw to d-smash, or pull a "forward" and d-throw to b-throw to f-throw) but ur first objective is to get into good habits, which entail dealing the most "guaranteed" damage via taking the least amount of risks. After you demonstrate that u know how to play wisely, then mix it up to make ur style more personalized and "myndgamezy"
 

smasher91613

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
348
Location
Hightstown, New Jersey (central Jersey)
While u can try other things, remember that Falco is special: if u land it correctly, his Dair will get you a guaranteed shine combo at lower percents. Master that first. Once you get that skill down, u should naturally build up the courage AND technique to add other things into ur combos. That's what is so beautiful about falco (and what makes Bawllz falco so hated). While predictable, the only thing a fox can do out of a correctly executed drill shine is DI, but you, ideally, should be able to follow DI.
lol just reading that really makes me want to play, i'll have to get back to practicing more and not just playing my brother

Ahh the d-throw; vs. a not-so-experienced fox, d-throw can be a quasi-chaingrab (d-throw-->re-grab-->d-throw). i suppose you could take advantage of the nubby fox and exploit the d-throw, but it is very likely that the fox knows how to get out. Lesson here is that at upper levels of play DONT D-THROW. Ur throw options are highly situational; ull mostly u-throw to shine or aerial, or f-throw off the stage; granted, some like to mix it up to maintain unpredictability (ie pull a "bombsoldier and d-throw to d-smash, or pull a "forward" and d-throw to b-throw to f-throw) but ur first objective is to get into good habits, which entail dealing the most "guaranteed" damage via taking the least amount of risks. After you demonstrate that u know how to play wisely, then mix it up to make ur style more personalized and "myndgamezy"
ok great i'm going to try that u-throw into a shine combo, i've never done it before so it'll be unexpected and seems like it would be pretty cool. not sure about that triple throw thing...gonna have to do that much later lol

Thanks again

(out of curousity how good would you say you are? you seem to know alot about this)
 

AlcyoNite

Smash Champion
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
2,332
Location
**** Triangle, NC
lol just reading that really makes me want to play, i'll have to get back to practicing more and not just playing my brother



ok great i'm going to try that u-throw into a shine combo, i've never done it before so it'll be unexpected and seems like it would be pretty cool. not sure about that triple throw thing...gonna have to do that much later lol

Thanks again

(out of curousity how good would you say you are? you seem to know alot about this)
I think a lot about the game and what consistencies there are over other peoples' styles of play. I do not personally rank in tournies because I dont attend many (no car =/ ); however, I am good, whatever that means nowadays...

I analyze falco more because he is one of my secondaries. I main fox and I am picking up marth, so i have had to do a lot of studying. I should actually study fox more because i never really did. I just mained him for a couple years and grew in skill. Thats kina why i wanted to expand into falco and marth to first learn how to study a character and then learn how to study a character I already somewhat knew how to play.

/Tangent
 

Da Shuffla

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
1,810
Whenever I pick up a character I read their guide first. Lots of research. The bird is no different. His combos are definitely worth some study time.
 
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