'How do I finish?' or 'My problem with Ivysaur'

[Calixto]

Hello PT board,


So I've been playing around with PT lately. He's definitely my favorite newcomer in Brawl, and I've gotten quite proficient with him. By that I mean that I have developed a good game with Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard.


The one problem I have however, is finishing opponents with Ivysaur. I can rack up damage rather easily (I am wont to abuse the Bullet Seed attack), and I can play keep away and stay alive fairly well (forward smash and Razor Leaf are good) however, I simply cannot get my opponent to die. My upsmash is strong yes, but it's slow and I can't seem to land it. I tried to do some edgeguarding on realizing that weakness, but I can't seem to do that reliably either. I either end up using back/up throw for the finish at high percents, or more commonly, just switching to Charizard for the kill move.



That works fine enough, but that means I have to give myself a window of time enough to switch to Charizard then jump over/get over to the opponent to finish quickly, which is not entirely reliable or efficient. Can someone more experienced with Ivysaur give me a few pointers?

 

[Yukiwarashi]

That's strange. Ivysaur does have a few killing moves. The forward smash is nice, especially when you're edgeguarding. I tend to use Ivysaur's forward air to keep the opponent up, and reading where they land and how quick they are to airdodge, I either use Vine Whip and attempt to get the sweetspot at the end of the vine, or I use my u-air move, which isn't bad. Try using those moves?

 

[TheLake]

Foward air and up air work wonders.

Up B is sweet too if you can land it lol

I dont know if it will help at all but ivys my favorite and I just got some videos of me using him alot. Sooo if youd like check out my vids in my thread and see if anything sparks any ideas.

 

[Calixto]

Hrm. I did not know Up B sweet spots. Interesting.


I can do some Up air, but I guess I'm not quite good at judging its range yet, and I'm just no good with using forward air. But I will work on those.

 

[infernovia]

I believe her throw can kill at moderate percentage too. Just note that I am unsure about this, but I do remember a video where it happened (unsure about percentage, but do it near an edge).

Fsmashes should be able to kill too. If you start using other moves (Ftilt, Bair) to space, I don't think you would have too much trouble landing a good hit.

 

[0RLY]

I save fsmash for killing since usmash is too hard to land and dsmash is just downright weak. Fair kills at higher percentages. Uair kills, but I don't like it's hitbox. Vine Whip has scored me a few KOs before. I use it as much as possible.

 

[Adriel]

Dash attack or back throw your opponent away and switch to Charizard immediately if you're having problems KOing. Dash attack can also kill, btw.

 

[Blackbelt]

The Up and down aerials are both killers.

 

[chubas]

The Up and down aerials are both killers.

But down aerial has a horrible horrible lag. Vey risky to try, but pays off when spikes.
I'd suggest uair, and Fsmashes. Try Fsmash after Ftilt, just space it well.

 

[Blackbelt]

But down aerial has a horrible horrible lag. Vey risky to try, but pays off when spikes.
I'd suggest uair, and Fsmashes. Try Fsmash after Ftilt, just space it well.

I know the Down Aerial has horrid lag, however, you forget the fact that the Down Aerial halts momentum. This fact makes for some very fun mindgames. Mindgames that cause most opponents to misjudge the size of one's hitbox.

 

[FindTheBalance]

Uair is great. The trick is to use it > fastfall. It gives ivy great downward momentum as part of the move, and the ff makes it better. It's just a much safer way in case you miss your KO.

Also, lots of players don't know the range or lag on fsmash or usmash. Use this to your advantage.

I personally try not to use dair. It can work, but it's too predictable, and swordies will smack you up at that range. An ivysaur falling straight down is only either dair or nair. It's possible that if you like to airdodge at an opponent on the ground, they'll expect that instead of a dair, but it's just too risky in my mind. Fair could also be used, especially if saved to avoid declining damage. The range is terrific.

So to make a long story short: use the lag on usmash, the range on fsmash (both for edgeguarding esp.), uair when coming from beneath into a safety ff, and fair for approaching or being approached in the air.

 

[agum]

Interesting to hear you have problem KOing with Ivysaur; I personally find Ivysaur's fsmash to be one of the best KO moves among the 3 pokemons actually (not the best, but one of them). Comes out very fast and knocks back a lot. Usmash on the other hand, I find too hard to land. Dash attack can also KO.

 

[ShadowDigo]

Forward Smash is very good at killing.
As they've already said, fair and uair are very good too.
If you pratice a lot, you can easily spike with the dair when the opponent is getting back to the stage.

 

[AmishTechnology]

I don't recall hitting with U-Smash. It's very slow and doesn't have any momentum like Bowser's F-Smash, nor does it have an incredible range or anything to be an effective roll-chaser as far as I remember.

F-Air is perhaps your weakest, but most reliable killer due to its range and somewhat quick speed.

F-Smash is likely your most solid killer. It's pretty strong, but it has okay range and isn't entirely fast, although not as slow as Charizard or anything.

U-Air is quite fast and still deals great knockback. Can be a killer if you can set your opponent up in such a fashion and save this move so it doesn't suffer from the "stale moves" effect.

I have to experiment more with D-Air. It's similar to U-Smash's power except it's slightly slower but it can spike. However, when intercepting an enemy's recovery as Ivysaur, just be aware of your terrible recovery. Several characters may be able to gimp you on their way back, such examples being D3, Kirby, Meta, and Pit. Pretty much, swallower, good jumper, and/or fast aerials that can send you backwards while they're recovering = risky.

 

[FindTheBalance]

The thing with U-smash is it's more of a defensive smash. People just don't know the lag. They expect it to be a quick smash and jump in for a kill. Then it hits and kills them. It works great in free for all. I've never really had a problem with it in 1v1. I mostly play ikes and marths, so I don't know if other characters get by it easier.

 

[hippochinfat!!]

Fair, U air and Fsmash is what I use.

 

[fire_wulf]

I tend to decay the Fair so it loses KO ability. I've gotten really good with Uair, Fsmash is also a fav of mine. I am notorious with my friends for getting the Dair meteor. On occasion i can land the Usmash... other than that... good luck.

 

[The Pimp]

Up-air, fsmash, upsmash, f-air, meteor down-air, sweetspot up-b

 

[Kemious]

Well a about 130 Up throw can kill alot of characters...