High Tier Matchups

[The_ToolBag]

How does one deal with:

*Rosaluma

*Shiek

*Olimar

*ZSS


??? - Trying to get some more input from other players

 

[Dayzin]

I would also like to know this cause my options vs shiek feel incredibly limited.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Rosa:
Rosalina isn't too hard to deal with (still in Rosa's favour but yeah). Luma extends hitboxes and makes landing dair incredibly safe. Offstage as long as you space properly you have serious dominance at diagonals around her. Don't ever try to uair her offstage and you'll be fine.
The endlag on her down b is actually enough that you can use mks to get in and punish with rar bair/regular fair for easy kills.

Sheik:
Mechakoopa eats needles, but is entirely unsafe to deploy unless sheik cannot approach. Mix up cart approaches and never driver through her shield or else you'll eat a bair. You lose if you go offstage since 90% of her options there don't do enough kb to break the threshold for copter retrieval. This matchup is horrible. Godspeed.

Olimar:
Play a different character.

ZSS:
You have to rely on hard reads and your massive disjoints. MKs will eat stun gun so that's handy. Always be weary of spaced bairs. Be careful when approaching her shield since Up B OoS kills bjr insanely early since his size and weight makes it difficult to SDI out of. Offstage you can get tricky and set up frame traps using z drop mks and nair/bair that force her into unsafe options/possible double ledgegrabs.

 

[krazyzyko]

Vs Olimar abuse his koopa drift (1211), his spinout goes through his pikmin.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Vs Olimar abuse his koopa drift (1211), his spinout goes through his pikmin.

Customs aren't really a thing in most parts of the competitive community though. Lots of places are using them just to prep their regions for apex and then they'll probably die out.
Also spinout is extremely risky. I could see it working but i could also see you getting upsmashed oos easily

 

[V1cegrip]

Customs aren't really a thing in most parts of the competitive community though. Lots of places are using them just to prep their regions for apex and then they'll probably die out.
Also spinout is extremely risky. I could see it working but i could also see you getting upsmashed oos easily

*evo. FTFY. : )

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Loool what a typo. Oh well, my b.

 

[Regulus]

Can't you just beat olimar with a wall of fairs? Doesn't seem like he'd have many options to get through it.

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

I understand Duck Hunts wanting to switch to someone else against Olimar, but Jr too wants to switch? I'm legitimately curious as to why Alph has it so good against Jr. I imagine Alph's Smashes and Side 3 being such strong wall-out tools would be one of the reasons (especially when you're trying to recover). Another reason would probably be his Side 1/2 allowing him to not need to approach to deal damage.

However, he doesn't seem fast enough to be able to come off as Sheik. He's pretty floaty too, making our ability to UAir shark him quite easy. He's also very light, which our good KO power can take advantage of. Jr's melee range is farther than many of Alph's melee moves, even his aerials, and I'm certain our Side B JC juggles can compete with his Side 1/2 Pikmin latch-ons in terms of sheer damage output. Speaking of Pikmin latch-ons, we have decent tools to get Pikmin off of us, such as DTilt, NAir, FAir, and definitely Side B Jump Cancels into aerials. Is there something I'm missing here?

 

[krazyzyko]

Customs aren't really a thing in most parts of the competitive community though. Lots of places are using them just to prep their regions for apex and then they'll probably die out.
Also spinout is extremely risky. I could see it working but i could also see you getting upsmashed oos easily

I hope not. Oli is pretty tough even with koopa drift.
Yeah they will catch on if you use it too often but you gotta mix it up with the JC's. I just try to get the health lead and then wall them out.

 

[Mr Moosebones]

I hope not. Oli is pretty tough even with koopa drift.
Yeah they will catch on if you use it too often but you gotta mix it up with the JC's. I just try to get the health lead and then wall them out.

Customs will never be meta.

Can't you just beat olimar with a wall of fairs? Doesn't seem like he'd have many options to get through it.

Lmao have you ever actually tried this?

I understand Duck Hunts wanting to switch to someone else against Olimar, but Jr too wants to switch? I'm legitimately curious as to why Alph has it so good against Jr. I imagine Alph's Smashes and Side 3 being such strong wall-out tools would be one of the reasons (especially when you're trying to recover). Another reason would probably be his Side 1/2 allowing him to not need to approach to deal damage.

However, he doesn't seem fast enough to be able to come off as Sheik. He's pretty floaty too, making our ability to UAir shark him quite easy. He's also very light, which our good KO power can take advantage of. Jr's melee range is farther than many of Alph's melee moves, even his aerials, and I'm certain our Side B JC juggles can compete with his Side 1/2 Pikmin latch-ons in terms of sheer damage output. Speaking of Pikmin latch-ons, we have decent tools to get Pikmin off of us, such as DTilt, NAir, FAir, and definitely Side B Jump Cancels into aerials. Is there something I'm missing here?

Most of what you said doesn't make sense. People really need to step back and realize that general theorycrafting and actual practical experience are not the same thing. Most of those attacks you listed don't actually get pikmin off. Fair is a floating hitbox and doesn't overlap with his hurtbox, making it mostly useless for getting pikmin off unless you hit them during specific frames of animation and they're also in the perfect spot to do so.

You have literally no approach options vs Olimar. Duck Hunt has a better cqc game than BJr does, so I'm not sure why you find it so hard to believe. It's not unwinnable but it's an uphill battle. Your best options are to bait out down smash and attack with dair, causing juggle situations. Like you said, olimar is total garbage in the air. In neutral though, BJr needs to rely on hard reads and the opponent's lack of matchup knowlege to get Oli where he wants him.

 

[Splooshi Splashy]

Those moves don't knock away Pikmin? I should've tested those moves further before claiming that they did. Depending on where the Pikmin are attached to you, seemingly ALL of our aerials miss (UAir seems the most reliable out of them, but even that's questionable), and even our ground A button moves too (only DTilt & Dash Attack seem to have any hint of reliability). Even Side 1 & 3 miss often. Side 2's Spin Out is the most reliable of the Side B moves for shredding Pikmin, but as stated earlier, it can be baited and punished if read, and we won't have this option if customs are off. I'll concede on this point: BJr has a harder time shredding Pikmin than even DH does.

DH's CQC is definitely better than Jr's in this MU.... once you can deal with Pikmin being thrown through your entire arsenal. The DH boards have been talking about the Olimar MU this week, and it certainly looks grim for DH, with DunnoBro stating that Olimar outcamps DH and Wispy giving a score of -1 in favor of Olimar... ._.
It's a good thing I have numerous other characters on deck for this MU, like , whose Nayru reliably shreds non-Hardy Pikmin in 1 go (and reflects any that don't reach me before Nayru comes out), and , who can terrorize him with his own copied Pikmin (once he swallows him, of course). :>

 

[Mr Moosebones]

Kirby/olimar is one of the funniest MUs in this game. Kirby loses until he gets a swallow, and then he gets beaten arguably even worse somehow.