High score competition in Brawl

[Nintendude]

You may think this is strange, but I'm actually becoming more excited for Brawl's high score competition than the actual vs. mode with online play and stuff. Melee's high score competition is arguably the greatest out there. A massively large community formed and we've been nudging scores and shaving off frames for years and years. We keep thinking we've finally maxed things out, but somehow records continue to get better and better, right to this day. Case and point: 10-Man Melee was at one time struggling to sub-3 minutes. Now it's down to 2:54.20 and new world records are still achieved just about every week.

With the new MMB announcement I've been thinking more and more about how intense the competition will be. There's actually a possibility for over 1000 individual records to keep track of. To put this into perspective, Melee has 326, and that's easily lasted for six years and will keep on going.

Here's what I'm basing my calculation off of, if I use the (very) conservative estimate of 25 characters and 51 events:

BtT: (25 + 1) * 5 levels = 130
HRC: 25 + 1 = 26
MMB: (25 + 1) * 5 modes = 130
Events: 51 levels * 3 difficulties * 2 = 306
Classic: 25 characters = 25
SSE: 25 characters = 25
---------------------
Total: records = 642

(Thanks to GDhunter95 for correcting my math / interpretation)

There's likely to be more than 25 characters (Falcon and Luigi alone bring the total to 25), and more than 51 events doesn't seem unlikely either. Don't forget about the possibility of Board the Platforms returning too! It looks like there will probably be over 700 records.

Traditionally GameFAQs has been home to this competition, but that seems to be fading out a little. HRC is on it's 125th topic (each topic closes at 500 posts) and BtT is at part 80. Multi-Man Melee and everything else (1-p modes, events, random stuff) resides on the SVR forum, which became a 2nd home to this stuff. GFAQs probably won't work for Brawl, even though people are really attached to that concept. I bet the topics would 500 in 1 or 2 days and it would be impossible to keep track. I heard that there are plans to have Smashboards assimilate this community, so the staff better know what they are in for!

Well, it seems I've sort of rambled on and even gave a brief history lesson, so I'll return to my original question. Who here is REALLY excited for Brawl high scores?

 

[Soodey]

Home Run Contest co op should be one of the more interesting ones.

 

[GDhunter95]

Your maths off. You wouldn't use *2 to signify the two player mode....

When you start talking about two players. You would either talk about 2p modes as 1 value, the best score you can get using any combination of two characters. The total would then look like this.

BtT: (25 + 1) * 5 levels = 130
HRC: 25 + 1 = 26
MMB: (25 + 1) * 5 modes = 130
Events: 51 levels * 3 difficulties * 2 = 306
Classic: 25 characters = 25
SSE: 25 characters = 25
---------------------
Total: records = 642 (~2x Melee, which is still very impressive)

OR...

You would talk about hundreads of values, one for each possible combination of characters. Each character can be partnered with another character in 2p mode and each combination is unique. So let's say Mario has a 2p record with each of the other charas for a total of 25 2p records involving just Mario and another character, including himself. There would also be 24 differant 2p Records (total of 49 so far) involving Link and another character without counting the pairing of Mario and Link. There would also be Pikachu and any another character except Mario and Link (72 now)...etc, etc. The correct formula would be something like... 25 1p records+(25!/2!(25-2)!) 2p records = 325. (I'm preatty sure you actually need to add an additional 25 for doubles like Mario&Mario. I'm not 100% positive on that since I don't usually work with this type of math, but the correct total is 350 if that is the case.)

So, using the same estimate.

BtT: 325 (350) Combinations * 5 levels = 1630 (1755)
HRC: 325 (350) Combinations = 325 (350)
MMB: 325 (350) Combinations * 5 modes = 1630 (1755)
Events: 51 levels * 3 difficulties * 2 = 306
Classic: 25 characters = 25
SSE: 25 characters = 25
---------------------
Total: 3941 (4191) records

and that's with only 25 characters. People are expecting anywhere between 30-40 . If the roster is say...40 chars. 40+(40!/2!(40-2)!) = 780. 780*5*2+780+306+40+40=8966 Total records. (If you do need to add some more for mario & mario matchups then it's over 9000!!!! )

If they re-introduce Board the Platforms or any other mode for that matter with varying difficulties/stages and a 2p mode? Well, breaking 10,000 Individual Records shouldn't be too hard at all. Lots of luck keeping that organized and up to date.




Personally, I don't really care. Except for Home run Contest, I was never too big on scores.

 

[Kittah4]

Even though its more mindless, Multi-man brawl on endless should be fun. jack up that total KO count!

I seriously doubt that EACH pair of characters will have their own records in co-op play. Of course, this could happen, I suppose, and it WOULD be the best solution, but over 9000 records of anything is just crazy.

I propose either they wont be saved or they'll have a top ten board for those scores with the characters you use.

 

[The Hypnotist]

I've thought about this a lot. How many different records there will be? Without a doubt 100's, I can't wait to see how fast people will BTT with two people! I'm going to be watching a ton of videos!

 

[The Hypnotist]

I do think that there will be different records for EACH team.

Yes that means there will be a BTT record for Bowser and Peach, but there will be one for Bowser and Bowser. Because it's so different with each team.

Someone do the math assuming teams are different and there are 35 characters.

 

[00Elf]

Wait a minute, how do we have 25 different SSE records? You don't play all the way through it with one character.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Yeah, I don't know about that. But don't forget about co-op SSE. But we'll have dozens of classic records.

 

[Nintendude]

Your maths off. You wouldn't use *2 to signify the two player mode....

When you start talking about two players. You would either talk about 2p modes as 1 value, the best score you can get using any combination of two characters. The total would then look like this.

BtT: (25 + 1) * 5 levels = 130
HRC: 25 + 1 = 26
MMB: (25 + 1) * 5 modes = 130
Events: 51 levels * 3 difficulties * 2 = 306
Classic: 25 characters = 25
SSE: 25 characters = 25
---------------------
Total: records = 642 (~2x Melee, which is still very impressive)

You are right, the one above is the one I believe to be correct. The other one seems too complex and involved to be true, but we can keep our fingers crossed.

Even though its more mindless, Multi-man brawl on endless should be fun. jack up that total KO count!

I seriously doubt that EACH pair of characters will have their own records in co-op play. Of course, this could happen, I suppose, and it WOULD be the best solution, but over 9000 records of anything is just crazy.

I propose either they wont be saved or they'll have a top ten board for those scores with the characters you use.

Actually, Endless Melee is not mindless at all....unless you want to settle for a record of only several hundred KOs.

 

[The Hypnotist]

I don't understand why more people are posting. But there will be records for EACH TEAM. I think I might try to do the REAL math.

 

[GDhunter95]

Someone do the math assuming teams are different and there are 35 characters.

Ah Teams sounds much better then combinations.

Using 35 instead of 25 or 40

I'm almost convinced you need to add an additional amount for mirrored teams, because I think the formula is used for counting combinations of things like cards where you wouldn't end up with a pair like Jack of Diamond and Jack of Diamonds.

35+ (35!/(2!(35-2)!)) + 35 = 630

BtT: 630 Teams * 5 levels = 3150
HRC: 630 Teams = 630
MMB: 630 Teams * 5 modes = 3150
Events: 51 levels * 3 difficulties * 2 = 306
Classic: 35 characters = 35
SSE: 35 characters = 35
---------------------
Total: 7306 records

You are right, the one above is the one I believe to be correct. The other one seems too complex and involved to be true, but we can keep our fingers crossed.

Well Complexity isn't really an issue. You could easily set up several large tables to show what goes where. Then once you set everything up you would only need to edit individual values when someone breaks a record. It's just a rediculous amount of information though.

Actually, Endless Melee is not mindless at all....unless you want to settle for a record of only several hundred KOs.

Wait, ppl keep high scores on that? Does that mean there are really six modes?

MMB: 630 Teams * 6 modes = 3780
Total: +630 Extra Records



Edit: Ack!

Edit Edit Edit: Um..... because I know someone is bound to point it out.

I should be writing the formula like this: (n!/(k!(n-k)!))

but I'm lazy (which is a very, very bad habit, I know) and keep forgetting to add the second set of parenthasis which would make the answer very, very differant if you actually typed it into a calculator. And Hypnotist quoted me before I could properly change it. Not that it matters since the errors in my other post as well and I'm not going to bother changeing it.

 

[The Hypnotist]

I did the real math, it's insane!

I actually did the math. And maybe teams won't get records. I mean I'm sure people would try and get them. But it would be a TON of records. I'm assuming there are 40 characters.

For BTT there would be 200 single records. That's 40 times 5. For BTT Teams there would be be 3600 per stage. And then there's 5 stages... so that's 18,000 plus the 200... 18,200 so far. For classic mode there's a single and double record. And if you wanted to do set records for EACH CHARACCTER AND TEAM... you'd have 1000's.

Now I don't think we'll have seperate (serious) records for each team when it comes to multi man brawl, and classic mode. Howver I think that we will hgave seperate records for BTT and HRC, because it really is WAY different. That being said... It will be insane!!!

IGNORE THIS, I DID MY MATH WRONG (I THINK)!

Props to the guy ahead of me.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Ah Teams sounds much better then combinations.

Using 35 instead of 25 or 40

35+ (35!/2!(35-2)!) = 595 (+35 would be 630)


BtT: 595 (630) Teams * 5 levels = 2975 (3150)
HRC: 595 (630) Teams = 585 (630)
MMB: 595 (630) Teams * 5 modes = 2975 (3150)
Events: 51 levels * 3 difficulties * 2 = 306
Classic: 35 characters = 35
SSE: 35 characters = 35
---------------------
Total: 6911 (7306) records

Excellent. And it's still conservative. It would really be around 40 characters. Co-Op Classic. 100 events. That's more moderate. I'm so snaging Game and Watch and Peach BTT on stage 3 FTW!

 

[Nintendude]

Wait, ppl keep high scores on that? Does that mean there are really six modes?

Yep, we sure do. Here's where the records are kept currently:
http://smashvids.proboards77.com/index.cgi?board=records

Endless Melee competition is ancient. It's also home to one of the longest standing SSBM WRs: Tetsuya's 7800 DK.
My bad for thinking there's only 5 MMM(B) modes for whatever reason >_>

I understand that keeping track of records for every combination is completely doable, but it's just such an unbelievable thought.