Help with Peach

[Zumbach]

So what's the general strat against peach? Throw her up in the air? Peach is probably my worst enemy. How do I win against a Peach?

 

[AirFair]

start shinin till she starts cryin

no but laser control. Don't let her pull turnips. Keep her grounded so she can't float.

 

[SwiftOfDaSouth]

start shinin till she starts cryin

And there you have it folks.

 

[Dubs_]

Peach's vertical mobility is pretty trash, and Falco's is godlike. Use that to your advantage. This is definitely a matchup where you want to slow it down, see Westballz vs. Armada @ TBH4.

If you know how to combo floaties, you should be able to get a decent punish off every shine/opening. Double dips are always juicy at mid-percents, and Laser -> Jab -> B-air is excellent at high percentages.

 

[Stalled]

Don't ever let peach pull a turnip. Be aware that her upsmash beats dair. Don't CC dsmash.

 

[SSS]

This match-up is weird and hard. I'm too tired to write my opinion on this but quote or like this comment so I can get a notification tomorrow morning telling me to come back and say stuff.

Today in tournament I experimented and went Puff against Peach just to try it out, and while I feel I could get my Puff to the place where it could be tournament viable, I am just going to get better with Falco in the match-up. It's definitely a weird match-up.

 

[SSS]

Alright so this match-up is weird but not impossible.

First off, lasers are your friend. Don't be too predictable with them or anything, though. Lasering under a platform is really good because she can't come right at you obviously, and if she tries to float above the lasers and come in from above she can't because the platform is in her way.

Camping the top platform works. Falco gets to the top platform faster than any other character. Meanwhile, Peach's double jump takes like NINE YEARS to get her up there. So you can camp the top platform, if she starts throwing turnips up at you, go to a side platform. Switch between the two. Et cetera. Whenever you feel pressured and want to reset the situation of the game, go to top platform.

The main thing is to laser to keep her grounded. If you're lasering her she can't leave the ground and float. She also can't pull turnips well. If she is floating, for the love of god don't challenge the float. If she's floating towards you don't try to jump at her and aerial her, YOU WILL LOSE. Might be the most important piece of advice. She has to come down eventually, so wait for that to happen and punish her then. A good thing to do is dash away, and when she comes out of her float, laser grab really fast. It has to be a super close laser though.

Dair is your friend but please do them late to avoid getting shieldgrabbed. What i mean by late dair is you do the dair very close to the ground. So you don't start the dair as you rise up, you do it right at the end of your fall. Think about it as you trying to dair their toes. This gives them less time to shieldgrab you. If you can, go for dair shinegrab, but it can be scary so don't use it too much. Nair is safer on shield but nair can be crouchcancelled, and against Peach when she crouch cancels you you're going to get dsmashed.

Obviously don't crouch against Peach because dsmash will do like 60% damage on you. If she's on a platform, don't try to challenge her because you'll get dsmashed. If she's on the ledge, don't stand right by her or she'll get up and dsmash and you'll be offstage and dead.

When you're offstage, you die. Sorry. That's Falco life.

When you're edgeguarding her, try to get her to go low by shooting lasers, and by threatening right on the edge with fullhop back air. When she's floating right in front of the edge trying to trick you, laser her or SOMETIMES ftilt her. When she does go low, hang out on stage, facing away. If she tries to upB right onto stage, fsmash her or bair her or something. When she drops down to a certain height (you just need to learn it), she's going to try to sweetspot the edge. At that point wavedash back to grab the edge and you'll be fine. Just don't get hit by umbrella, roll onto stage. Easier when you're above 100% since you'll have the longer roll. You can sometimes try to go way out and nair or something but it's usually not worth it.

When she's on the ledge, space out of her ledge attack range and her get-up dsmash range, and laser. She has a hard time getting on. She can't drop down double jump because her double jump is so slow. Just space and wait and react and don't get too close.

Dair combos beautifully. You can do like dair shine instant double jump fast fall dair shine etc. Nair can get crouch cancelled.

If you have trouble killing her, try laser jab. If she's at low percents this is dangerous because she can crouch cancel it and when Peach successfully crouch cancels you lose. But at high percents it pops her up nicely for a bair or SOMETIMES and fsmash (jab fsmash is more common against Marth tho). I guess I should talk about laser game.

When you're lasering to keep her grounded, laser and dash dance outside her range. Always keep the range between you outside of her dash attack range. You can laser and dash dance away so she thinks she can dash attack and then she misses and you punish. If you laser her shield don't try to go ham because you'll get naired oos or something, just keep your spacing and react to her options. When she's shielding you can get a bit closer because she can't do dash attack, just be careful. Don't approach with lasers, space with lasers and react. If you mess up your spacing and get too close after a laser, you can jab. If it hits her and it's not crouchcancelled, you can get a punish. If it hits her and it is crouchcancelled, try dashing away but you might get punished anyway, which is why laser jab is unsafe when Peach is at low percents. If it hits her shield, dash away and try to react to nair OOS or shieldgrab.

Matchup is weird. Don't try to force anything. Don't get anxious when she isn't dying, it happens. Laser until 150%, laser a couple of more times, then space back air lol.

Yoshi Story is amazing for you, she dies really fast including off the top, her edgeguarding isn't as big of an issue since it's a small stage so you both die early anyway, just be careful not to get dsmashed on the platforms since there isn't a lot of room. Camping top platform still works here to avoid dsmash.

Pokemon Stadium is good for you. Again, she dies early off the top, and you have room to laser and stuff. You can laser below the side platforms really well. Only problem is there's no top platform. That being said, the transformations are really good for you. This stage might actually be in Peach's favor if it wasn't for the transformations. Laser camp until transformation, then try to get a good punish, but just stay safe and avoid dsmash on platforms.

Battlefield is pretty even. You can't ride the wall with firebird to recover which sucks. Honestly though her recovery gets messed up by Battlefield a bit, too. You can camp top platform, and under side platforms. Sometimes it feels a bit cramped to me, and again dsmash on platform seems to cover a lot. Just stay safe and don't challenge it.

Fountain of Dreams is hella weird. I think Peach wins on this stage honestly. It's cramped, you can't laser that well, and the platforms mess up your short hops. The ceiling is high so you can't kill her off the top, and the side blastzones are super far so you can't kill her off the side but she can edgeguard you. Some Peach's don't like this stage though and strike to Battlefield because they're crazy.

Dreamland is exhausting. She never dies. It's awful. That being said you can win by lasering a bunch, abusing the top platform which is highest in the game, and hanging out under side platforms and stuff. It's doable, just difficult. Laser to like 180%, bair. Stage is so hard, dude, but I would rather go here than Fountain of Dreams, but it's all personal preference.

Final Destination SUCKS. No platforms so she can just come right at you, and your platform mobility is a big part of what makes the matchup doable. Also she can chaingrab you with uthrow. Also there's no platforms to recover to so she can edgeguard you better. Strike this first in stage striking, ban it when she gets counterpick.

Honestly stages against Peach aren't that great, especially for first stage. She'll strike Yoshi Story and if she's smart she'll strike Battlefield. You strike FD, and then you have to pick between Fountain of Dreams and Dreamland. I personally pick Dreamland but I'm a psychopath who is fine with a 6 minute match against Peach. Your BEST BET for stages against Peach is just saying "do you just want to go to Battlefield" when you see that they've picked Peach.

When neither the Falco nor the Peach know the matchup, and just play how they normally play, Peach wins. When both players know the matchup, it's pretty even. It's just that Falco has to alter his playstyle so much more than Peach does. It's very doable, just a matchup you have to learn. Good luck!

 

[Zumbach]

Thanks everyone!

 

[AirFair]

No problem

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

Generally, Peach is bad vs retreating aerial pressure and AC bair, but you want to have a fair bit of stage to do retreating lasers or retreat when she's setting something up. You don't want to be too obvious or pre-emptive with these, lest she attempt to dash attack you for it.

vs. Float

Observe her height, current momentum and relative positioning, and any moves she's doing currently. If she's not doing a fair yet, you can actually probably challenge the float when it's not grounded. Depending on height, you could go for a nair, fair if slightly higher, or uair if slightly higher, all shorthopped, and used at angles her moves don't work well against yours. Only do these if she is not starting a fair, and not able to avoid given her current momentum and position. The exception is uair. The move is huge, and if she's high enough above you but close enough horizontally to not avoid it while retaining the float, you can pretty much uair at no consequence (this height will be above sh laser height). If you connect with the nair or fair at zero, try to delay them a bit and IMMEDIATELY shield, dash away, roll, or utilt depending on whether what you think you have time to do without getting naired, unless she gets carried with the aerial right to where you're landing, in which case, shine no matter what. If you shield, you may wish to shield DI in and shine if she does it higher up, or out and try to reset the situation or AC bair if she does it lower. If you dash away, you can get many things, including a grab, a bair, pivot fsmash, a dair or any other number of good things. If you're not confident that you can hit Peach in the earlier parts of a jump, and she's at a height where you can't ftilt her out of float, it may be best just to roll or wavedash in whatever direction gets you farthest from where her current momentum would have her land if she stopped floating just then; the only thing that might get to you fast enough to punish the roll is dash attack, and even then, probably not. You can also run wavedash or walk under her when she does an advancing float from higher up, which also means a free bair, fsmash, or utilt if she attempts any aerial (and bair and utilt allow you to punish landing even if she airdodges). You can also do a laser to space outside of fair range always, and if she doesn't SDI, it's a free ftilt, utilt, or fsmash. If she's floating at a more grounded height, you can obviously just laser, but she can just land and start doing grounded options very quickly, but because this is a bit of a mobility commitment if she doesn't use her double jump, you can usually setup an approach or space an ftilt. Although you shouldn't try this, if she is floating above laser height, you actually has a decent chance of hitting her oos (Especially if you angle up and towards).

On the ground.

Peach's dash isn't very fast, and her only particularly fast option for farther distances in front of her is dash attack. If she isn't wavelanding off a platform, she can't move in the air very fast either (and there's very limited locations where she can do that on any stage). You can shield the dash attack and shield DI out as an option select for everything but grab, which will take much longer to reach you, and punish anything that isn't a float. Chances are, the Peach player isn't doing run up pivot AC bairs (which would still be slower than dash attack to get to your position) so you have time to recognize a float and attempt to counter with a laser, ftilt, aerial, or DD. If there's platforms, you can fulljump away and she doesn't have much ability to chase this. When she's sheilding, retreating aerials do wonders as none of her faster oos options have particularly good range in front, and you can bait out and punish almost everything. Generally, try to avoid the range of the options that aren't dash attack, and if you don't see her attempting them, you may wish to shield because she's probably trying dash attack (or dsmash, which you can shield DI and punish). Otherwise, you can wall her with ftilt if she keeps moving forward with any thing but shield (though if she expects this, she can punish it, so mix in aerials and even jab if she isn't representing CC or is at higher percents), and laser her from farther so you don't have to deal with this. If she rolls away, you can sh laser towards and try to space at around ftilt distance. Laser dtilt is extremely annoying to her, and while you should just grab her dair her or AC bair her most of the time if she tries to get in position to land a Dsmash, you can charge one of your own, and because Falco's legs are invincible, you can avoid her Dsmash and hit her with a charged one for attempting it. Try not to act to pre-emptively after challenging her shield either by hitting it with a laser or just seeing it, if you wait and react while maintaining proper spacing, you can deal with everything and get better punishes easier.

Punishes (onstage).

Uthrow leads to good things, including fairs or uairs depending on DI and percent (uair had a huge percent range), try to be fast-falling as you hit with dairs for pillars, and hit with the earlier hitbox (of course, in NTSC, you can also go for AC dair, which you should still be falling during). She get's pillared and pillar tech-chased like a floaty, pretty simply. While I already mentioned aerial utilt or shine followups in the previous section, if you're landing on a lower platform, utilt can serve more as a frame trap, where even if she doesn't drift into it, you can punish her double jumping or airdodging, but don't utilt until she's close enough for it to hit if she drifts into you any more. When done and Peach is lower to the ground, she can hit the floor, and if she misses the tech, it's a free utilt, shine, dtilt or dsmash, depending on what you prefer, and the first three can all set up for that like dtilt as well. If she techs through you, free fsmash, aerial into combo, grab, whatever. If away, you can try to be safe and laser, but you can potentially wavedash or pivot fsmash, or grab or get an aerial. If Peach holds down, she hates downtilt, downsmash, and utilt (though she's not a big fan even if she doesn't). At higher percents, bair, ftilt, and fsmash also make crouching a nightmare for her. If she's DIing out, it may be more desireable to dtilt or grab after a dair than shine, or turn away from wherever she is->utilt. You can use movement to stay beneath peach when you get her in the air and just harrass her with uair, utilt, and bair. If she tried to airdodge through an upsmash, she probably gets hit by the end anyway.

Edgeguarding.

Don't laser her up-b unless you can land a normal attack right afterward. If you walk up to the ledge and slide into a downsmash, it pretty much won't get hit by up-b, and punishes when she fails the sweetspot, though you can also just judge her position relative to the ledge. If she's low enough that she has to up-b, and would either have to grab ledge or barely go above it, but also far enough that it can't hit, grab ledge from the ground on stage, probably with a wavedash or PC drop. Refresh invincibility no more than once, and do so before she can hit you at the ledge if she can. If she is barely able to get above, you can try to dip low and ledgehop bair/dair, shine-turnaround dair, or do a higher ledgehop dair not going onstage, but able to fire-bird to the ledge. Do whichever will hit, but won't let the Parasol hit you. Alternatively, generate enough threat that she doesn't go for on stage and just hold ledge and roll as your invincibility is ending. If she's too low anyway, easy, refresh invincibility if you have enough room (you do), roll. If she's close enough she could hit, you may wish to do a slightly pre-emptive fullhop, or short hop if you can get far enough behind the Parasol, and just grab ledge while she's still rising, or if she didn't Parasol yet, immediately refresh, or attempt a ledgehop nair or dair if you don't think she'll tech (land back on stage). Ideally, you don't attack, and just casually roll back on as she drops to her demise. You can generally laser her a lot from farther offstage, or if she attempts a get up option, and eat jumps/float. Laser dsmash, laser ftilt, and laser fsmash are all things she doesn't want to get hit by, but you can also just do bairs or utilts depending on where she'd have to airdodge, as even if they miss, you can punish the air dodge. She has very limited ability to recover from offstage dairs, but be weary if she has her float, as it makes it easier for her to hit you out of all of these walling moves.

Other stuff: Peach sucks vs platform camping. When you get to percents where shine to shine doesn't connect because it sends her too far, shine uair will usually KO. If you give her room to pull a turnip, you can pressure her without having to worry about grab. Off of fthrow, anything it looks like it should from a standing position towards the middle of it's hitbox pretty much will if you do it immediately. After uairing her on a platform, say out of uthrow, utilt. After fairing to a similar position, shine. Flying at an aerial Peach (preferably in hitstun) who's low to the ground and at the edge with a dair either sends her off, or gives you an extremely easy tech-chase. Play lame and Peach has a very hard time, she can't really outlame you. If you get dthrown, DIing behind makes it hardest for Peach to cover all tech options on a flat area. Always punish a roll through you if she attempts one. If you're already doing an aerial and it misses, just DD punish, shine or utilt and it will usually work out.