Help with dair spikes

[Isprayaxe]

Lately I have been practicing dair spikes (off ledge obv) with marth, but I can't really get them down. Most of the time I just go to high and the rest just make them go upwards. Rarely I do pull it off but im not really sure how.

I can do it pretty easily with other chars (like falco, falcon, and jigg jk!) but i'm having trouble.

 

[Wieners]

Falcos is a lot easier to land because it doesn't need a tipper. Falcon's only spikes if you hit them at chest level (Nipple spike) most of the time it's a meteor. Marths is harder than most because you have to tipper it.

 

[BTmoney]

I don't think that really answered his question. Most the time when you will dair someone off stage, it will be because of a ken combo. Unlike other combos, Marth cannot set this up with consistency. Meaning the opponent has to be in a bad position for them to get dair'd off stage most of the time. If you put them in a bad position you can punish them by taking a stock with the spike off stage.

If the opponent is in the air, you want to fair them first. Fair them close to them so you don't get a tipper fair (tipper fair has more knock back and will put them out of combo range)
Then you want to double jump up and or slightly backwards and push down on the c-stick to dair/spike. Watch people ken combo (YouTube) and you will see what I'm talking about. Look at some marth combo vids.


You can also utilt (with your back facing the ledge) and jump towards them (not facing them) and spike them with the backswing of dair against space animals and possibly other characters (situational). Most easily done against heavy/fast falling characters.

Those are 2 big dair spike set ups.
You can ken combo a grounded opponent but you have to shffl your fair and if they are grounded you want to get a tipper hit so they will pop up into the air. Then once again DJ up/backwards and dair.

You can also tipper fair a grounded opponent (shffl and land) to close fair opponent in the air to dair while still in the air

Just to reiterate; the spike hitbox on dair is along the tip of the swing. If you ever get the chance spiking with the backswing of dair is much much easier than getting the front half hitboxes.

Make sense?


Edit: I think I repeated myself about the grounded ken combo but I'm on my phone and I'm not fixing it lol.

 

[Wieners]

He didn't ask for dair setups. He asked why he has trouble landing marths when he has no trouble landing the characters he listed, which is what I answered. Dair setups are nice though.

 

[BTmoney]

If that is what he is asking, which I don't think it's that simple lol, then here is a simple answer.

Doing an unsubstantiated dair (ie jumping off stage and trying to dair someone who is recovering) will almost never work unless the opponent has no options or chooses a horrible option. If it does work, you could have done something easier and more consistent.

 

[outofphase]

you have to hit with tipper for it to be a spike. this is harder when the opponent is below you than on either side. look at the hitboxes thread to see where tipper is exactly. unless you are already directly above your opponent, typically dont attempt to spike from directly above them. it is unnecessary and harder to accomplish. you honestly just have to get used to it. its a little tricky at first but once you figure it out, youll come to love dair, especially backside dair.

 

[Bing]

Yeah, landing Marth's dair is a bit difficult, however at low - mid percents you can u-throw double jump dair for a free spike. I dunno, works for me...

 

[Isprayaxe]

I don't think that really answered his question. Most the time when you will dair someone off stage, it will be because of a ken combo. Unlike other combos, Marth cannot set this up with consistency. Meaning the opponent has to be in a bad position for them to get dair'd off stage most of the time. If you put them in a bad position you can punish them by taking a stock with the spike off stage.

If the opponent is in the air, you want to fair them first. Fair them close to them so you don't get a tipper fair (tipper fair has more knock back and will put them out of combo range)
Then you want to double jump up and or slightly backwards and push down on the c-stick to dair/spike. Watch people ken combo (YouTube) and you will see what I'm talking about. Look at some marth combo vids.


You can also utilt (with your back facing the ledge) and jump towards them (not facing them) and spike them with the backswing of dair against space animals and possibly other characters (situational). Most easily done against heavy/fast falling characters.

Those are 2 big dair spike set ups.
You can ken combo a grounded opponent but you have to shffl your fair and if they are grounded you want to get a tipper hit so they will pop up into the air. Then once again DJ up/backwards and dair.

You can also tipper fair a grounded opponent (shffl and land) to close fair opponent in the air to dair while still in the air

Just to reiterate; the spike hitbox on dair is along the tip of the swing. If you ever get the chance spiking with the backswing of dair is much much easier than getting the front half hitboxes.

Make sense?


Edit: I think I repeated myself about the grounded ken combo but I'm on my phone and I'm not fixing it lol.

Falcos is a lot easier to land because it doesn't need a tipper. Falcon's only spikes if you hit them at chest level (Nipple spike) most of the time it's a meteor. Marths is harder than most because you have to tipper it.

Thanks both of these actually help a lot.