Help with an iron man

[djmath]

I'm going to be playing one of my friends in an ironman (all 26 characters 2 stocks a piece) and the outcome is pretty important, but at the same time it's mostly casual.

I main marth and I can play falco, falcon, sheik and ganon with some relative competency. But I don't have much experience with the rest of the cast.

Could you answer the following questions about any characters you are familiar with?

[character name]
How to win neutral:
How to approach:
How to combo:
How to edgeguard:
How to defend/recover:

Brief notes are fine. For example, I'll do marth

Marth
How to win neutral: Dashdance and bait your opponent
How to approach: DD grab or dtilt, SHDF
How to combo: juggle in the air or chaingrab, techchase, end with f smash or ken combo
How to edgeguard: dtilt, fsmash, jab, shield breaker, grab ledge, ledge-drop backair, dropzone fair, dolphin slash (a lot with marth)
How to defend/recover: save your jump, side-b once or more, go low, sweet spot ledge unless they're lightshielding. ledgehop aerials are useful

Thanks a bunch!

 

[SwiftOfDaSouth]

Damn dude this is a tall order.

 

[djmath]

Damn dude this is a tall order.

you could just do one character if you want. that way 25 people can give tips on one character instead of 1 person giving tips on 25 characters

 

[SwiftOfDaSouth]

Welp, here goes. May contribute more in the future.

Pichu
How to win neutral: DD around and trick them into doing something they don't know Pichu can punish, like running out from under a platform or whiffing a grab. (Pichu has a surprisingly large grab HB for his size) Make them approach by throwing well - placed, smart neutral Bs to apply pressure (don't worry, they only give you 1%.) Once he's baited in or his spacing is broken, SH Nair or an aerial thunder on the move can be used to break the neutral and start a combo, the latter of which being a little tricky but can be used to trap and unwitting opponent in a corner or surprise him.

How to approach: Aerial spark/thunderjolt/whatever it's called -> follow and if they shield, grab them. If they get hit by it, hit them again or grab them anyway. If they spotdodge, use a smash attack. If they roll, chase and use a low Nair to cover all escape options, spacing it such that it would hit both a forward roll or a backwards roll, so you don't have to guess.

How to combo: Up air strings into thunder are beautiful. Nair can lead to other Nairs. Upthrow chaingrabs work on fast fallers and Upthrow can be used to get many free hits, such as Upair chains.

How to edgeguard: Snipe with neutral B, Bair off ledge to gmp, Nair to kill, Dair to gimp or kill, Fair to gimp, Walljump fair/nair for style, ledge Thunder for even more style, Ledgedrop Nair, Charged Dsmash, Charged Usmash for maximum reading disrespect

How to defend/recover: Defense = RUN AWAAAAY - Pichu is fast and has a decent WD/WL. use that to your advantage to juke out opponents and make an opening for you to punish. Retreating thunders and sparks are hilarious and harass your opponant into making dumb choices. Recover = Your Up B will, if used fully, give you 7% just for recovering. Not to mention the extra 3 or so % side B ads on. You want to treat this much like Pikachu's, Luigi's, or Marth's recovery; save your jump, Side B as far as you can, Jump, then recover any way you wish because Pichu's Up B spans like 2 Final Destinations. The Up B can be used twice in the same direction by tapping one direction, returning the stick to neutral, then hitting up B again in the same direction you wish to travel. This has to be done VERY QUICKLY. You can sweetspot the ledge. Pichu also has a walljump, so recovering low on stages like Final D may not be a bad idea. If recovering high, it's not a bad idea to clear the ground with a spark or two.

 

[AirFair]

Falco:
Neutral: get a grab and techchase with dair and shine combo
Approach: laser laser laser laser poke (nair, bair, jab, ftilt)
Combo: shine to pillaring combos, platform combos are pretty good with that, and also shine => bair.
Edgeguard: dsmash, ftilt, fsmash, dair
Defend/Recover: side b (shorten for the mindgames) and upB. Shine stall is good on yoshi's if you are waiting for Randall

 

[Spak]

Pikachu

How to win neutral:
DD, bait attacks, and punish properly.

How to approach:
SH Nair is good, trying to shield poke with D-Tilt works to rack up %, Thunderjolt grabs work if they are playing sloppily, and the first few hitboxes of Uair can start combos (although the timing of that can be a bit hard if you aren't used to it).

How to combo:
U-Throw chaingrab on Spaces is a free stock. Pikachu can't juggle as well as Pichu because of Uair differences, but he has good mobility and you can end a combo with a tailspike if you are near the edge or an U-Smash (Pikachu has the second best U-Smash in the game).

How to recover:
Pikachu can only sweetspot the ledge from above, but if you aim too far down, you will SD. Other than that, read SwiftOfDaSouth's Pichu advice on Side-B (minus the extra % stuff).

How to edgeguard:
D-Smash has a couple hitboxes that can stage spike if they lose ledge invincibility, but there are usually better option for edgeguarding. Pikachu's F-Tilt is disjointed and continues into the ground when angled down, so it is another good option. Also, he can ledgedrop Dair or Nair, or just offstage Dair or Nair in general to kill. Also, you could snipe with Thunderjolt if you have good aim.

Other notes:
You can use lightening to kill off the top while they are magnified or at the top of the screen. Also, just adding to the Falco section, SHL is vital to the neutral.

 

[gmBottles]

Bowser

How to win neutral: You don't
How to approach: You can't
How to combo: I love getting them above me with either upBOoS or just throw them up and juggle them with up airs. But generally you don't.
How to recover: lol
How to edgegaurd: Edgehog, <100% get-up attack
Other notes: Good luck lmao

 

[dan smith]

Ness
How to win neutral: keep your distance and wait for them to approach or juke, fair a lot, shield pressure, don't get grabbed
How to approach: fair a lot
How to combo: chain uairs, tech chase with nairs and stuff, djc bairs
How to edgeguard: fsmash, fair a lot
How to defend/recover: fair a lot

 

[TehGuitarLord]

Mario
How to win neutral: wait for an opportunity to grab, space with fireballs, throw out sffl aerials, maybe a cape here and there, fair tech chases.
How to approach: fireballs, dd grab, dash attack aerial, usmash, etc.
How to combo: chain grabs, utilt uair to other aerials, down throw utilt uairs.
How to edgeguard: killwith fsmash and down smash, cape, fire ball snipe, bairs, nairs, up b gimps on spacies.
How to defend/recover: cape, usmash oos, wavedash back fsmash or fair. To recover, mix up with mashing down b, cape, save jump, and up b

 

[SAUS]

Link

How to win neutral: Bombs and boomerangs to bair jumps / shields. Punish with up-airs / bomb if they are in the air and grab / shield-poke d-smash if they shield.
How to approach: Bomb to cover yourself before going in. Usually don't approach much, but you can catch the bomb if it bounces off their shield. Might be tough to do if you aren't familiar with it.
How to combo: Up-air many times. Pull out a bomb and go back to ground if they go really high so you can use the bomb to trap them in the air longer.
How to edgeguard: Throw things. Down tilt is good if you know they can't sweetspot in their current situation. It leads to almost any aerial most of the time.
How to defend/recover: Retreating fairs and jabs

 

[SwiftOfDaSouth]

Bowser

How to win neutral: You don't
How to approach: You can't
How to combo: I love getting them above me with either upBOoS or just throw them up and juggle them with up airs. But generally you don't.
How to recover: lol
How to edgegaurd: Edgehog, <100% get-up attack
Other notes: Good luck lmao

Man.

Our money match is gonna be something else.

 

[Spak]

Roy

How to win neutral:
DD, bait attacks, and punish properly.

How to approach:
Don't. Wait for them to attack and CC D-Tilt.

How to combo:
Comboing with Roy is really situational and nearly impossible other than a few things like falling Uair->F-Smash. Other than that, you're mostly on your own unless a Roy main would like to correct me. Roy's problem is his hitstun is so horrible that the other character can get out of hitstun and attack you before you're out of endlag, meaning that most combos that could be legitimate end with you getting punished and dying. Also, F-Smash is Roy's best punish for non-Puffs (more on what to do with Puffs later).

How to recover:
Same as Marth, but Roy's recovery sucks.

How to edgeguard:
Good luck; other than normal ledgehogging, I haven't figured that out myself.

Other Notes: I don't expect you to be going Roy v. Jiggs, but here is some info on Reverse Up-B just in case:

Sorry for the DP, but here's what I found:

Battlefield: Impossible on main platform, but doable from the lower floating platforms (and up, but that's a safe assumption to make from now on)
Final Destination: Yup
Dreamland 64: Only possible on the top platform
Pokemon Stadium: Possible from the main platform
Yoshi's Story: Confirmed (I tested it when Puff was at the bottom of the slanted ground on the right of the stage)
FoD: Not possible from ground level, but it's possible at least from the left floating platform's starting position.

So it technically works on all of the stages, but it's very situational in some of them.

3/7's not bad.

EDIT: This is with no dee eye.

Also, note that you shouldn't try for frame-perfect counters because it takes 8-9 frames after you start the move for his counter to actually come out.

In addition, unless you're up like 10 characters (which you won't be because Roy is either going to be your first or your last character), don't ever try the Fire Spike (Dair). I've been told from a Roy main that he has actually slowed a person down while they were fastfalling because the Fire Spike's knockback is so bad. Also, Roy's Dair endlag ensures that you will kill yourself afterwords and it isn't even a true spike, meaning they could meteor cancel and survive. Also, the hitbox is near his armpit and some surrounding hitboxes can hit them up and towards the stage.

I've also stagespiked someone with Roy's Up-B, but don't EVER count on it working or use it as a strategy. It was a desperate attempt at tacking some more % on them before my inevitable death.

Lastly, U-Smash has a spike hitbox if your opponent SDI's towards the ledge at the wrong time, but the other player has to mess up in order for it to work and it still isn't common if they do mess up, anyways. Don't count it as a reliable technique to kill because it probably won't.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that a well-timed F-Smash can edgeguard fairly well and B-Throw can combo into D-Smash, F-Smash, U-Tilt, or F-Tilt at low %.

EDIT 2: Corrected Edit 1 to say B-Throw instead of D-Throw. I forgot D-Throw sends them farther behind you than B-Throw does.

 

[pershona]

Fox

How to win Neutral:
DD into grabs should work, if not shine.

How to approach:
Nair should work well, especially combined with shine.

How to combo:
Upthrow into Uair should so a lot of work, try to come up with UpSmash setups.

How to recover:
Switch between Side and Up B so you don't get predictable.

How to edgeguard:
Bair or shine to spike them.

How to play defensively:
Laser camping works well, espeically on stages like Pokemon Stadium.

 

[SwiftOfDaSouth]

Don't ever try the Fire Spike (Dair). I've been told from a Roy main that he has actually slowed a person down while they were fastfalling because the Fire Spike's knockback is so bad. Also, Roy's Dair endlag ensures that you will kill yourself afterwords and it isn't even a true spike, meaning they could meteor cancel and survive. Also, the hitbox is near his armpit and some surrounding hitboxes can hit them up and towards the stage.

Oh my God. Roy is so bad.

 

[Spak]

Oh my God. Roy is so bad.

I know, but I love him anyways.

 

[SwiftOfDaSouth]

I know, but I love him anyways.

I know, I went through a phase probably about a month or so ago where I was determined to be good with Roy and I just realized when I was playing that there was probably no advantage to being good with this character. It was sad and I still pull for Roy, but he's just so...*sigh*