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Help in upcoming Doubles Matchup

the cap

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
36
Location
Greenville, SC
I just wanted to ask the board thier opinion on the my upcoming doubles matches. We are playing on the console, and my teammate mostly plays Fox, but is also good at Falcon. The people we are playing only play Falcon and Ness.

We mostly play Castle or Dreamland, and I am a good all around player (I play all the characters pretty equally), I am better than all of them, but they are good enough to give me a challenge ( Not bragging, I get rapped online :( Streak!) but I am a lot better on the console, I do almost all the advance techs, and am fine tuning my combo abilities.

But back to the question, My teammate will most likely play Fox, I was just wondering what you think are the top best three team characters to play with Fox to support his playing style?

Thanks for your help

Smash Rules you Fools!
 

/zeke/

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
4
Well when I play fox in doubles, I enjoy the following teammates: Link, Pikachu, Mario, DK, and CF probably in that order. The thing I like about doubles (especially in 64) is that team chemistry far outweighs character chemistry.

For example, I like it when my friend plays link with my fox more than pika with my fox even though not only as a character by himself but as a character helping fox pikachu is way better than link.

If you don't have a preference, ask your partner. If they don't either, just mutually agree upon a character or two that you feel comfortable with. If that team works, stick with it, if not have a backup lol.
 

th3kuzinator

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
3,620
Location
Winning
It depends on what level you are. At high level, pikachu is the best support for any character. From what you have written, it seems as if your opponents are not top level. For a Falcon and Ness match-up, I would either go Falcon, Luigi or Pikachu. Fox is not a very good doubles character IMO, he is more suited for 1v1. Regardless of anyone you pick, however, remember to always prioritize doubles strategy like this:

1. Your life
2. Your partner's life
3. Edgeuarding your opponent.

Basically dont do silly stuff to save your partner when you are in danger but if you are in the process of edgeuarding your opponent and your partner is in trouble, always to help him first.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
Short answer:
Pick Pikachu. 40(ness): 60(pikachu)

Long answer:

Fox is a fast character who uses alot of techs and has great combo ability. I don't know how your partner plays, (and if he even uses techs) but there is also a liability. Fox has a bad recovery;you should pick someone who can help aid fox offstage.

Considering your opponents are using ness and falcon, you should follow the character matchup system;but i can also give you some advice on countering falcon and ness.

Falcon is almost like fox, he has an un-fathomable combo ability (fthrow/usmash, uair x8, upb) and also, a bad recovery;not as much tech use.

Falcon can hold his game against pikachu, but a good enough pikachu can beat a falcon any time.


Ness uses a ton of techs, but..while having also, a good combo ability (if they can use techs correctly) HAS THE WORST RECOVERY EVER IN THE WHOLE GAME.

Pikachu DESTROYS ness. there isn't much ness can do against a good pikachu, all his moves basically counter his;this doesn't mean ness still can't win, though. I don't know how good the players you are versing, but even a fairly good ness will be decimated by pikachu.

TL;DR

Character Matchup-
30(Ness):60(Pikachu)
40(Falcon):60(Pikachu)

40(Ness):60(Fox)
45(Falcon):55(Fox)

if you have any more questions pm me or just listen to the guys below me, they know what they're talking about. :)

edit: and kuz too.
 

dandan

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
1,373
or you can just go kirby, especially on dreamland, gimping ness and falcon can be so easy.
 

the cap

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
36
Location
Greenville, SC
Lol dandan, I would but they get super pissed if i play with kirby, and then it turns into an all kirby war.

th3kuzinator, I like your take on doubles strategy, never really thought along those lines, but i will now. My life, partners, then kill.

Soupamario, first off, best name i have seen on the boards, made me laugh for about an hour. And the ness is not very good, pika would be my first pick if i was in serious match. These guys are good players, not like the noobs who will say, i am the best at this game and then you 5 stock them, but they do not play at level that most people on this site do, On a scale of 1-8, I would rank, them around 3, me being 4.5, almost a 5.

They have good timing/spacing, ok combo ability, (almost no zero to death combo's), have a hard time finishing people at high damage, except with throws/smash's). Teams are a little different, they are better as a team, this is due to my inability to face them 1v1, for a long duration. They know i am better then them, so they always stick close, and try not to fight me by myself. That being said, I am not bragging, i am sure you all are better then me. I just love the game

Thanks for the advice and keep it coming
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
9,337
Location
Sayonara Memories
o.o best name on the boards

Kirby breaks the two of them, get them into a U-Tilt chain and have your partner take advantage of it, or sit next the edge and D-Air for instagimps.

Is Team Attack going to be on?
 

the cap

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 12, 2010
Messages
36
Location
Greenville, SC
no team attack, but we are doing half of our battles with items. Its the only way they think its fair, and money is on the line.
 

th3kuzinator

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
3,620
Location
Winning
No TA? You should really try to convince your opponents that TA is the fairest way. Basically, with TA, just stay directly on top of your partner and attack together. Dont try to split up if possible. Again, try to get TA turned off, things become 10x more interesting.
 

#HBC | ѕoup

The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
6,865
no team attack, but we are doing half of our battles with items. Its the only way they think its fair, and money is on the line.

umm..wat.

no TA isn't fair, you can just huddle up and spam smash attacks aimlessly with no reprocussions.

and yeah, TA is more interesting, and also, it basically x's out my "pick a character who can help fox recover" because with no TA, you can't help your partner recover.

items are fun, but no TA is absolute BULL****. :mad:
 

Blade689

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Emeryville
Team matches have a lot to do with location/positioning of your character. Because team attack is off (for whatever reason) let me tell you tactics you will run across/use. Kind of look at the game like a series of football plays, because with team attack off, you can stack and move through each other without consequence. Because of this idea, I have come up with the term Leader and Follower in my descriptions. The Leader has free range of movement, while the follower should stay within the spacing of the leader, because it is important for the strategy to work. I hope you like the ideas.



1) Tank + Spam: this tactic requires that both opponents are on the same side. You or your teammate runs forward, the other trails about 2 roll distances away. The tank is the leader of the run, the spammer is the follower. The formation is to provide cover for the person leading, while having another attack ready if they break the defensive line you created.

a)The Leader of the formation needs to either smash attack forward, dash attack in, dash shield. Basically anything that's a plausible hit. From there he is used as a line of defense, trying to hold the ground and do as much damage as possible. The best tactic is to get a back throw off, because it gives you a lot of time to set up another attack, or get more cover fire from your teammate.
List of good tanks:
-Kirby
-DK
-C.falc
-Ness
-Yoshi
-Mario
-Fox
-sort of Samus (using Bombs, up+B and smash attacks mostly. It holds a good defense line against aggrives players)

b)the Spammer is support for the leader. Normally he will maintain the distancing away from the leader and throw projectiles towards his teammate. The spammer's main goal is to damage up the opponent at a distance to re-enforce the defense of the tank by throwing out as many projectiles as possible. The projectiles will allow the leader to not fear grabs because projectiles will either force a forward throw, or be set back down before its complete.
-if the defense line is broken, the spammer's new mission is:
_ run and help teammate (if he is being combo'ed)
_ counter their attack with a hasty dash into the group. Probably knock 1 of the opponents out of the group with this desperation attack
_ Both the Leader and the follower attack in on the gap between each other to hurt the person rolling or jumping inside your zone.

Good Spammers:
-Mario
-Fox
-Link
-Ness
-Samus
-Kirby (with a power steal of anyone else on the list)
-sort of luigi (doesn't help on ground that is bent)
-sort of pikachu (projectile is a little slow)

Summary: Stay tight, but make sure your not into your opposing team. Its about setting a wall of defense against 2 people that's important. It allows you to capitalize on farming space for items. It helps a heavily damaged teammate to continue to fully support while not rushing forward to death. It staggers the damage and how your team is broken so one of you will always have control.
+ Works well on aggressive players
+ Works well on players that separate constantly
+ Works well if they have no space to run away, forcing them to attack to wall.
+ Staggers attacks so it stops opponents from clustering
+ Stops your team from being separated easily
- Short hopping forces either the spammer to jump, or the wall to defend multiple directions at once.
- Can be broken by low % character's if they know your moves.
- Hit and run will always beat it.



2) Agro+ Spammer: This style requires that you know the opponents strength, and that they are seperated from each other. The Agro is the leader and the Spammer is the follower. The follower stays about 3-4 roll distances away from the leader.

a)The leader has to target the weaker of the 2 players. The weaker one will allow for longer combos, more opening, and can be gimped more easily (not the weaker character, but the player). His goal is to run after that person the moment the team is separated. He should probably use a lot of short hopping, and focus on combos that lock down the weaker player so that he can't break free. The additional damage and time will cause the weaker link to buckle.

Good Argo:
-Pikachu
-Fox
-Yoshi
-Ness
-Kirby
-C.Falc

b) the Follower's job is to first separate the team, and maintain that separation. He should focus on the stronger of the 2 opponent's, but never become baited or chased. Use the moments where the team is far apart by throwing projectiles at the weaker opponent, this will help the Leader's approach, and give you move time to cover the stronger player when the weaker is being combo'ed.
So rules of thumb:
1st: Separate the team for the Agro
2nd: Spam Projectiles on the Agro's Approach
3rd: Keep the stronger player away from his teammate

Good Spammers
-Mario
-Fox
-Link
-Ness
-Samus
-Kirby (with a power steal of anyone else on the list)

Summary: Stay loose and establish a barrier between the 2 opponents by maintaining a center. By pressing the weaker side, you advance the game and take lives away from the quicker pay-off. Hold back the Stronger player with the spammer and don't let them help each other. Force the Stronger player to keep babysitting the weaker player if he wants his teammate to survive. The stronger player is forced to fight 2 people to save his teammate and a lot of time between attempts. Use fresh lives when doing this tactic because if one of you dies, it can be reversed on you in a big way.
+ Causes a lot of stress on a team
+ Divide and Conquer..... ever heard of it? lol
+ Force a damaging up on the stronger player, making him easier to keep away, while eliminated quick lives.
- Only works if the team is separated, so the smaller the stage the less it works.
- is not a continues strategy sens there is a reset to it at the start of each life.
- Must have an accurate assessment of your opponent's skill


3) Double Advancing: Its the idea that you are both highly aggressive and running at the same speed. Neither of you are the leader or the follower, but you both have to stay about 1 roll distance apart. there are 4 steps to this movement, and you have to stay close.
-both are running towards the opponent.
1st: the lead person attacks forward.
2nd: the slower person attacks in when the lead lags out. Covering the same space
3rd: the Lead re-enforces the location by doing a smash attack which covers both members.
4th: the lead and the follower is now switched.
Good Combos:
-C.falc+Samus+Link+D.K.
-Kirby+Fox+Pikachu+Ness+Jiggy
-Yoshi+D.K.
Basically look at the size and speed of the characters determine the effectiveness of this strategy.

Summary: Its like a dance.... or a tango in the rhythmical sense. That each point your covered by the teammate or moving and attacking for yourself. Its about the barriers that you create and either force3 them into this whirlwind of moves, or scatter from trying to break it.
+Rapid amounts of damage
+smaller hitbox openings
+Punishment for trying to attack head on
+killing is fairly easy if they play into the assault
- you become weak when you try to separate.
- if one of you is thrown out of rhythm it falls apart
- When the formation is broken, they normally have separated you.



4)Above and bellow: This is a formation that allows you to break Tanks and Campers. The Follower and the Leader need to be about 2 roll distances apart, but once the leader jumps, the space needs to be wide enough to bait them. 3-4 roll distances is pretty good for baiting.

a)the Leader charges in by avoids the fight by jumping into the air. The leader is seen as a bait, and for a moment your team is separated. If they come after the leader, both should jump towards the person taking the bait. If they do not follow the jump, find a close platform to recover your jumps and try to flank your opponent by striking at the teammate in the back.
-the leader needs to be hard to hit, and he has to avoid fighting 2 at once. He should either see an open player to strike in, or follow the follower's movement and strike at the part at ht e same time.
Good Leaders:
- Kirby
- Fox
- C.Falc
- Pikachu
- Ness
- Yoshi
- Jiggy

b) the follower's job is the judgment calls. The leader is meant to distract the team and cause a situation where you can strike at the team from 2 different directions.
- if they take the bait in the leader's jump, flow them from bellow and capture the opponent in the air.
- if they allow him to land or sit above them, either attack in to the team to give the leader an opening, or retreat and further express the idea that he is bait.
- if they advance on you, hold your ground and allow the leader to flank them.
Good Followers:
- D.K.
- Jiggy
- Mario
- Fox
- Kirby
- Ness
- Link
- Samus

Summary: Getting them to Jump at the leader tests how the team operates. Its to break defensive play, and to test aggressive play. If only one takes the bait, they are the aggressive player and should be the focus for Agro+ Spam. If neither takes the Bait, then you have an attack from the front and the side at your disposal. This double pronged attack forces the team to either have to play man to man, or one of your attacks will break through.
+ Stops defensive play
+ Breaks tanking
- Doesn't work on maps with defined areas.
ex: sides of Hyrule, Sector-Z, right side of Saffron.
- must risk the life of the Leader (Bait)



This is sort of a play book and not the moves you should use. If you have a couple days to practice with your teammate, just go over these ideas and you will become much stronger. I never told you the moves to use because I only told you how to think. Adapting your play style to these overarching ideas is a process and requires a good teammate that is aware of it as well. Naturally some people are attuned to these ideas, but being aware of them will help you improve quickly. There are many more formations and plans/sub-plans and ****............ but I just wanted to tell you the basic building blocks of a team formation.
 

th3kuzinator

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
3,620
Location
Winning
tl;dr
If blade had this much to say about matchup advice with TA, I wonder what his strategies would be for a match w/o.

You should have charged for your post, since you're giving free information to someone who plans to use it to win MMs
 

Korrupshen

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
518
Location
dat place
play who you're best with. If you can't pick, pick Falcon because he's that cool.
CF with its gay Uairness. I counterpick against him with Luigi since I can easily combo break the Uair combo. I actually got someone to pause the game when I combo breaked with a Nair and said "HOW YOU RECOVER SO FAST!!!"
 

Blade689

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Emeryville
Yeah.... idk..... its just advice, and it gives me a reason to clearly think things out. I got a gmail account filled with like 500 drafts....... like 200 are about smash bros strategies or different ways to think about the game. I want to make a mind game guide one day......... like Art of War meets console gaming.
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
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Sayonara Memories
mindgames are dependent on the player...when i tried to write a small section on mindgames it blossomed to a full-on theoretical load of bs that i find painful to read, and i LOVE seeing my own writing, to give you an idea of how tech-heavy it gets...
 

Blade689

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
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Emeryville
@cheesball: ........... hmmmmm........ well could you ever categorize a player's (ummmmm) emotional range? like..... explaining in terms of stress...... or physiology? Like Id, Ego, Super Ego? Explaining the outcomes mentally on pay-off and reward systems and what level it satisfies? ..... from there explain how game play is affected when personally (ex: aggressive/passive aggressive/defensive.....etc) is manipulated by ex___________ sort of deal?

I know it wouldn't be full proof or as scientific as it sounds............ but it would kind of map the different metal breaks a person can go through. Sure it can't be mapped out like tic tac toe or rps....... but it could be mapped in some way.
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
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Mar 14, 2008
Messages
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Sayonara Memories
Freudian psychology is bs and shock theory that works from proof by intimidation.

Of course if you camp for half an hour they'll be pissed and more likely to approach, but that's not worth a guide on itself. That's common sense. You'd need to know the person quite well, as well as taking into account their peculiarities, likelihood to be predictable, reactions under pressure, etc

Seriously, you're reading waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far into this, mindgames are just prediction and successful follow-up bred from experience, not scientific mumbo-jumbo. It'll be an enormous amount of generalisations that will be nigh-inapplicable, given the diversity of human personalities.
 

Blade689

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Emeryville
Trust me, I know I read way too far into things. And I understand that it would become very muddled just by trying to lay it all out.

As far as freud.... eh, it was just an example of desire or reward affecting a person's mind. The Id and Ego were just the first example I could think of. Sort of the short hand way of saying that people are playing the video game for a rush..... addiction..... desire........ maybe explain it as a short term goal....... but that wasn't he right way to phrase it. To some degree, every player wants to do "something" in smash brothers...... and that's what I wanted to target.

Well, I guess I would have to say that minds must expand to find ideas and contract to find truths. If I go off and find a way to explain it, I will....... until then its a pile of drafts I am wandering through. lol.

could you link me to your threat about mind games btw? or did you take it down?...... just want to see how you approached it.
 

asianaussie

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
9,337
Location
Sayonara Memories
i was rather afraid to go deep for obvious reasons

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~~~~~~~~~
Mindgames inyourhead
~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know I'll get a lot of flaming for my mindgame section. I won't accept any
refutes until you explain in detail (with backup examples and references) why
and how my arguments are flawed. Also, PLEASE read it first, rather than just
sending an email telling me mindgames don't exist. I know there are a fair few
holes in my argument, but there are enough points to cover those holes. The
examples used may be unlikely and hard to implement, but are realistic enough
to be considered examples. Alright, let's step into the foggy, unknown world
of concise mindgame definitions and the reasoning behind them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines a mindgames as 'A psychological tactic
used to manipulate or intimidate.' Is this a good definition? Below are some
of the more concise definitions, or explanations of things I believe fit into
the category of 'mindgame'.

First of all, mindgames are totally distinct from technical skill. They are
psychological games, not contests of skill. This is undisputable, as the word
itself is derived from 'mind' and 'game', suggesting a contest of the mind.
You can dispute the description of your definition by suggesting 'mindgame' is
unsuited to what you believe mindgames are, but you cannot dispute the purest
meaning of the word, contained within the word itself.

Here's a broad starter. 'Using mindgames is the ability to know and predict
the opponents' moves.' In SSB, this is often the case. However, with this
definition, mindgames are broken down into basic prediction. I partially
disagree with this basic definition, and believe that mindgames also involve
knowing what to do AGAINST your opponent's moves. For instance, you find an
enemy Jigglypuff's favourite approach is a simple dash attack. You stand your
ground and take the dash with your shield, then shield-grab them. This is not
yet mindgaming: it is prediction and use of prediction to counter.

Another varied elaboration on mindgames is: 'Doing something different from
what your enemy believes you are going to do.' You rush at them with Fox. In
prior rushes, you went for a SHed aerial attack. They shield to prevent this,
and you grab them instead of aerialling them. Basic unpredictability.

Another source informs: A mindgame is any intentional manipulation of the
opponent, usually to lead them into traps or condition the opponent to do
certain things. You pressure the opponent to approach by spamming projectiles,
then counter them as they come close with a good smash attack. The important
word here is *intentional*, or else it's luck, not a mindgame.

Alternatively, people argue that mindgames are a generalisation of intelligent
play, and have no concise definition, or at least none that can appropriately
be worded. What is intelligent play? It is very different to technical play,
where you merely use character skill to overwhelm enemies. This is proven by
the fact that mindgames can be used to con pro players. It is distinct from
prediction, which is defined by heavy experience. Intelligent play does not
require a lot of prediction or extreme technical skill. Instead, I believe it
is the use of situation to turn the game in your favour. This is the reason
why prodigies can completely overturn established champions in games like
chess, despite lack of classical skill and any experience.

Situations lead to choices, and good choices lead to victory. For instance,
the enemy goes to spike your recovering Falcon from above using Ness's D-Air.
You then use your Up-B early when you would normally never reach the stage.
The Up-B connects and allows you to recover unmolested, and you even get a
chance to reverse the situation. This does not seem like much of a mindgame,
but has connections. After all, even life relies on making good choices.

Mindgames have another medium from which they work: Adaptation. Adapting to
your opponent's method-of-play, the stage you are playing on or the character
matchup. Adapting is different to prediction in that you change your behaviour
on the spot. The method in which you adapt spawns chance for mindgames. Ness
is notoriously easy to KO through off-ledge edgeguarding. You leap off and try
to repel them. The opponent will try and space themselves away from the ledge
so it takes longer for you to reach them. However, if you jump right back onto
the stage, you can score a KO from a ground-based edgeguard or a edgehog. They
predicted you would come at them and adapted to that. You then adapted to the
change in recovery and took them out from the stage rather than jumping out
and risking getting hit and KOed by the recovery.

So, in summary...

[1] Mindgames are prediction.
[2] Mindgames are being unpredictable.
[3] Mindgames are intentional manipulation.

These three definitions have a basis of experience. You need to be experienced
to predict and be unpredictable. Manipulation requires prediction.

[4] Mindgames are intelligent play.
[5] Mindgames involve adaptation.

These definitions are broader, harder-to-define statements. Intelligent play,
in my opinion, is use of the situation (this includes who you are playing,
what they are about to do, what character they are using and environmental
factors) to change the game in your favour. In short, adapting so you can get
a KO, which is the other statement.

******************************************************************************
In conclusion:

Mindgames are intentional manipulation of the enemy that involves countering
prediction with unpredictability USING prediction, adaptation and use of
intelligent play.
******************************************************************************

Does this definition hold true? If not, which definition does holds true? I
believe all of them have some truth. However, there are some fundamentals for
mindgames. First, experience. Without any experience, you cannot predict well
or perform mindgames. Second, knowledge and experience of the character. This
is fundamental to actually pulling off the actions you intend to do. Third, an
open mind. This allows adapting and quick thinking, and is apart from my other
fundamentals, if only because it cannot be practised.

Here is what I believe is the best explanation of experience-based mindgaming
from a very experienced and established Melee player/Smashboards member. It
has been modified, and since it is on a public forum, is free for use.

"Mindgames do not equate to experience. Experience is knowing what options
work and when they work. Mindgames are knowing what options work in a given
situation and choosing between the options. Purely having experience without
mindgames is like being a robot choosing the 'best' option every time, and
becoming predictable and punishable for it. Experience has no conscious
thinking involved, you just do what you find usually works in that situation.
Mindgames involve a lot of conscious thinking, such as changing what you would
normally do in order to trick someone who think you're going to do something
else (if it's broken, fix it). Experience is not a fixed constant. It changes.
The force that changes it is mindgames. According to the above arguments, if
a person lacks mindgames, he ALSO must lack experience, since experience is
the basis and provides the options for mindgames."

Experience breeds mindgames, that's the idea. Mindgames spring from experience
and also change experience. This is game adaptation, adapting to any obstacles
and bypassing them in a non-regular way (as compared to your regular way).

Finally, we come to the segment where we discuss whether mindgames even exist.
I firmly believe they do, for a multitude of reasons. Before you read this, go
up and read again my 5 summary statements, because I'll be referring them to
prove my point. Here are some realistic scenarios to help my argument.

You're Ness. Your enemy is Fox. They rush at you from above with a D-Air. You
catch their aerial on your shield, proceeding to grab and throw them.

Pretty simple. This satisfies [1] and [2]. But it isn't a mindgame.

You're Captain Falcon. An enemy has repeatedly SHed you with Yoshi's D-Air as
an approach. He runs at you from a distance. He aims the same approach at you.
You run back and Pivot Smash him as he lands.

This satisfies [1], [2] and [5]. That seems quite good. It's starting to look
like a mindgame. But what about the other points? Let's continue.

You're Link. Your enemy is Luigi. This Luigi, when knocked off, always tries
to sweetspot the ledge. As such, you predict this and ledgehog. As soon as
this happens, they jump and attempt to make it back onto solid ground, but as
he tries this, you ledgejump and use D-Air. They go right into your D-Air and
fly away to plummet to their death.

All have been satisfied. You've predicted they'll sweetspot, so you ledgehog,
satisfying [1] and [2]. They react as you thought they would, and you adapt by
jumping up and countering. This satisfies [3] and [5]. you chose D-Air rather
than another move, which is the best choice in this situation (most useful
hitbox, greatest chance to hit, good enough power). [4] has been satisfied.

And with that small demonstration of manipulation, I conclude the long-winded
speech about the existence of mindgames. Yes, they do exist. No, this is not
groundshaking proof.
 

th3kuzinator

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
3,620
Location
Winning
What I was simply told was a newb was "predict you opponent and be unpredictable."

This sounds so broad IK, but if you actually internalize this philosophy and make it your own, you will be surprised with your improvement. After consciously thinking about this quote for some time it began to appear in my play style subconsciously. My suggestion to you that does not involve advanced scientific theories etc. is just to think about what it truly means to be unpredictable and try to gradually incorporate whatever definition you come up with into your game.
 

Blade689

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
285
Location
Emeryville
I would say that I like your 5 points, I agree that its a great starting point to explain mind games........ but I would say that your sort of emotionless in a subject about emotions to some degree. That to some extend it is about pushing someone past their logic..... through anger...... or false pay-offs....... etc. I kind of see mind games of how far a person can stress a player, then either punish or reward their reactions. I would say that the biggest factor to mind games is to see the overall scope of the game, and the information that a person gather's in one game can be enormous.

hmmmmm......... I want to think about this for a few more days.
 

th3kuzinator

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
3,620
Location
Winning
why do I feel like 10x more a nerd now that I can understand what some of those symbols means. I certainly dont understand the entire equation, but I can pick up bits an pieces
 
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