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Help dealing with Counters(down-special)

Protosauce

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
47
Location
Calgary, Alberta, Netherstorm
So ive been playing 3ds for about a month now, focusing on puff, ike and sheik. The one of the problems ive run into, other than either absolutley winning or getting bloody creamed, is getting hit by counter (the down special on what seems like atleast half the cast). ive played against people that suck at counters, and its easy to punish. but 9/10 times ill have a sweet setup or tech chase going, with both us us starting to rack up the % and BOOM countered to death. some players seem to be able to us this extremely effectively, and i cant seem to get around it and get easily 2stocked. maybe im just terrible(probs), but is there any advice bombs you guys can drop for a dude who constantly gets countered?

tldr; im trash and keep getting countered. advice?
 
D

Deleted member 269706

Guest
If you notice someone really abusing the counter attack, focus more on grabs, or delaying your attacks. Counter's take a decent amount of time to break out of, more than long enough for you to grab that character, pummel them a few times, then throw them. Remember though, each player is different, you really have to focus on reading them, and figuring out their play style. But generally speaking, use that grab as much as they use that counter, or use a smash attack, and don't release until a decent amount of time after the counter was activated.
 

Jerodak

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 10, 2013
Messages
1,098
Location
North Carolina
NNID
Jerodak
3DS FC
1633-5601-9085
It sounds like you're having trouble with players countering during your strings, in that case, just be aware of where all the gaps in your strings are and be willing to give up the hit to scout it out. Whenever you're in a situation where hitting them is the obvious choice, walk try waiting instead. Pick up on habits, notice when they like to counter, is it during recovery or after whiffing attacks? Are they countering when landing? If they are, are they using the double counter, where they counter once then immediately counter again right after?

Personally, I enjoy fighting characters with counters, because once you have counter scouted, it becomes incredibly easy to land big punishes. My favorite answer to a counter, especially players who spam it, is to just charge my Fsmash until the counter frames are gone, then let it rip. Sometimes I even hit the counter intentionally a few times with small stuff like jabs just to let them think it's working, then I'll just Fsmash them out of it later on to take a stock. No point in shutting down a habit right away if it'll help you win later right? Now if they are really good with their timing for counters and it's completely unpredictable then you can just give up a few more hits and try to grab a little more often to keep them guessing while scouting for the moments when they seem most likely to counter. This way, while you may not get the chance to punish the counter, you can get a better idea of when your opportunities to land your K.O attacks are.

Basically, since counters are a huge commitment, if you are always making them guess then you're less likely to see it, but if you know they are willing to use it, you can pretend to go for that obvious punish attempt to bait it out. You can also try playing a character that uses counter for a while and become proficient at using it. Then it becomes easier to scout out those moments when a character would want to use counter, but you could also just play the match up a bit until you start to notice when and why that character is countering.

Also, against mac either offstage or near the ledge, if you hit his counter with a cross-up attack, so that he turns to face the ledge/blastzone during the counter attack animation then the momentum will carry him off or away from the stage and can result in a gimp. Not sure if this works on a grounded mac, but it definitely work when he's in the air.
 

Kikaioh

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
110
Location
San Antonio TX
NNID
ParkourSquid
3DS FC
4055-4356-1945
Like others have kind of mentioned, it's good to recognize what action it is you're doing that encourages them to execute the counter, then pretend like you're going to do that action, but then stop short and let them do the counter (which will cause them to be stuck in the counter move for a moment), and then attack them.

For example, if you throw a Marth up in the air and you have a habit of immediately jumping up and attacking them, but seem to be hitting Marth's counter move instead, try to mix up that setup a bit. So what you do is, you throw him up in the air and jump up towards him like you're going to attack, but then don't attack, and instead do a fast free fall (you could even attack if you wanted to, but make it so that your attack is early so that you know you're not going to actually hit him). He'll do the counter and be sort of stuck in the air and he'll have to wait to get out of it, and that's when you've gotten an open opportunity to attack him instead.

Then mix it up, trying to keep your opponent guessing as to whether you're going to hit in those instances or not. I like to mix things up in sets of twice-thirds, and by that I mean you perform a move twice in a row to set up your opponent's expectations of how you like to do a move, and then on the third time you do something different to break their expectations. It's all part of the mindgames to try and stay a step ahead of your opponent's reads and make it difficult for them to beat you.
 

Darklink401

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Messages
3,501
Location
Smashville
NNID
Yuki_Hirako
3DS FC
0731-5318-2530
Running up and shielding, pretending you're gonna do a dash attack or aerial (if they have responded to those type of attacks with counters before during the match) often works for me.
 
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