Help againts spammers/campers

[PokeStunts]

Warning!! Long post!!

Hi, I'm really new to these boards and I joined for the purpose of seeking help. I've always really like Sonic but when I first played him I thought he was horrible. After reading all the stickies on this board, watching lots of the videos and reading other peoples request for help, I've become much better (able to beat my friends).

Now I have this problem, this really cocky guy I know uses snake, but mainly Snakes projectile moves, he annoys me cause he bad mouths Sonic all the time.

His play style: throw 1-2 grenades forward landing near him, stays behind the nades all the time, and constantly uses his Mortar while being shielded by his nades.
If I rush forward by air I either get hit by the Mortar coming out, or if I make it through and hit him, the mortar which was launched up earlier, comes down and hits me. He also does the nade roll a lot, if I get too close when he is camping he uses Snake's up tilt or forward tilt which even when I air dodge I get hit by the incoming mortar afterwards. Holds a grenade and rolls from one end of the Stage to the other if I get close.

Our matches last over 6 mins, which is really long compared to others.
So any advice?

 

[Shou]

It seems like you aren't using Sonic's speed. (Only seems like..) Not only that it shouldn't be too hard since you can run and pick up his grenades and throw them back at him. While Snake has some good projectiles, Sonic's speed should be able to pass those. Spindash is effective, I've played Snake before and played against him. I think spindashes are good, but don't use them too often. I believe his side b spindash becomes invincible for a little bit..

If all else fails, Taunt. Just stand there and taunt, if he's cocky I'm sure he'll come right after you.

Not sure if my opinions will come in handy, but there it is..

 

[Soloman]

Snake is a devastating character to go up against if played well but by the sound of how u're friend plays hes a sucky snake if thats all he does. If hes just layin out 2 nades at once just pick one up throw it back he'll have to move. also short hop air dodge sonics speed allows him to close in easy and go in for some tilts. Snakes really slow all u have to do is watch his jab range and mind his claymore placement (sideb gives u invincibility frames on start up jump like stated above, BUT DONT SPAM THEM)

each nade has a timer of 7 seconds, i doubt his nade game is any good if he just throws them out without cooking them or releasing them with shield and picking them up to freeroam.

 

[R4ZE]

kick snake in the fece d00d.


seems like getting behind him would be the best bet, he isnt covering it, and u could do w/e u want form there. Smash, grab, start a spindash combo.

Side be could be your best bet because even if he tried to tilt at that close range the side B would be in it's high priority frames and would win.

 

[PokeStunts]

Ok, I'll try to use Sonic's speed as much as possilbe. I never really thought about doing a short hop air dodge with Sonic before, so I'll work on that.
I'm a little confused about the invincibility frames, does that mean I can use spin dash to get through Snake's forward tilt spamming?
Also I was wondering, sometimes when I forward B I roll past Snake's nades while hitting them and the nades don't explode, other times they do, even when they are first thrown without being cooked. Is there a certain amount of damage the nades take before exploding?

 

[R4ZE]

nades are on timers as far as i know. be careful not to hit A when spin dashing over them becasue sonic can pick things up while spin dashing.

and.. the side b invincibility thing is a myth. it is actually just extremely high priority.

for example if you release a spin dash (sideB) just just when you get smacked with some kinda projectile, it will most likely cancel out the effects of the incoming projectile.

it also will MOST LIKELY cancel out the effects of an oncoming attack and proceed to smack your opponent in the face. BUT be weary, a powerful enuff attack or an attack with SA frames will beat spindash even at its suppsoed "invincibility state"

such attacks that will beat it include: ikes nutral B, warios forward smash, a ganon warlock punch, a G&W dair key.. etc)

 

[darkNES386]

Our matches last over 6 mins, which is really long compared to others.
So any advice?

Even with just 3 stock, 6 minutes isn't long at all. I get frustrated too with campers, but you just have to be patient... trying using down b... and then jumping when you need to avoid projectiles/gernades and start up your homing attack while you're still in the air.... it's not quite common knowledge yet, but if you time it right during the homing charge (or just press B rapidly) you will release the attack sooner and catch your snake friend off guard.

I have a recording of how to deal with a wolf camper, but I don't know how much help it will be for your snake opponent... just don't get caught up playing their game too much.

 

[R4ZE]

yea those are some great tips darkness, its stuff like that.. people don't normally think about.

sonic really does just have so many ways to approch.


wolf is just annoying because if you stay on the ground he may decide to leap forward with his imbalanced forward smash, which apperently is probly more powerful/ranged/ usefull than marths melee f-smash.


so annoying... i hate wolf after seeing my cousin play him.

*where can i see this recording? im very interested.

 

[PokeStunts]

Yay, I beat his Snake... took 6.34, he wouldn't let me put the video up on youtube. My other friend let me put it up though, but he uses Lucario, here is the vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH6IgbLodBQ
remember, I"m not a pro or anything and even though I played melee a lot, I consider myself a newbie in brawl and still working on my Sonic.
Any tips and comments are welcomed ^_^

Also thanks again guys, all your helped really made it easier to beat my Snake friend!!

 

[Kricu]

I may be late on an answer here but if he uses the up smash as snake, Sonic's d-air destroys it. If all else fails just get in the air and when he does that destroy the bomb and then uses the attack again. This should get him into the air which gives you a chance to juggle him. Of course sonic isnt the best at juggling. Just use your speed like everybody else said.

After watching the video:

Your not bad. You did a descent job after you died once. Your friend failed at countering you and you punished him for it a couple times. I think I would like to play you at some point and test my sonic against yours. My FC is under my avatar. If you are interested please send me a message.

 

[Soloman]

Things to work on:
-Short hopping your bairs and maintain momentum.
-dont overuse fair, its better applied from a shorthop sideb (or as a counter to an opponents move lag) cuz of opened priority. In the video u seemed to go in time after time in a linear playing style. U got punished most of the time. Lucario especially has alot of powerful attacks that go directly in front of him due to his aura, his punch hitboxes are alittle more ahead of himself so a powerful grab game and some down b aerial approaches woulda been more useful, since his air game is kinda poo. Luc has some lag after attacks and sonic can take advantage of them easily.
-use jab and tilts more.
-Some points in the vid where u could have instant ledge grabbed but didnt. Even if his up b would have let him go over the ledge on to platform u could have ledge attacked blocking over ledge and repelled him back and follow that up with a bair or something else to keep him away.
-restating grabs. at 95%-125%ish lucario can be uthrown spring to uair for an instant kill. Coulda saved u some time trying to gimp him, and having u're strategy change on the fly, that is the beauty of Sonic. Never stay put and poke at every opening u see.

 

[PokeStunts]

Sorry Kricu, my online seems too lag, and I think it's pretty cool of you to think I'm good enough to play againts you! ^_^

Soloman, thanks a lot, all the things you listed are all the things I needed to hear, I knew I was doing something which started to make me predictable but I didn't know what else to do. I'm going to use your list and work my way down the list on improving my Sonic, that last tip about Lucario being KO'ed at 95%-125% is going to help me a lot lol. Thanks again!!

 

[Kricu]

thats fine. Maybe if it gets less laggy as nintendo gets the wi-fi right then we can play. I'm glad you made this thread because it's helping me develop a new strategy for my sonic as well. Maybe if I have a chance I will add a video of me. Which leads me to ask what you used to record your matches because I thought the wii could only record up to 3 min.

 

[PokeStunts]

I used this,
http://www.amazon.com/Pinnacle-230100033-Dazzle-DVD-Recorder/dp/B000FCA0P8
I bought extra cords and plugged it into both the TV and my computer, it recorded just fine. Although I think there might be better stuff out there but I just picked it up at Best Buy cause it was $54.99 there.
It plugs into USB, it has the Red, White, and Yellow plug. So for the Wii, I bougt 3 extra cables to split the Red, White and Yellow from the Wii into the TV and the recorder.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Your gimp game needs work. In that Lucario vid the only gimp you had that I thought really was used perfectly was the homing attack used to kill Lucario's first stock. The spring gimp that almost killed his second stock wasn't bad but you should have daired to cut down your air time and give yourself the chance to edge hog.

When you're edge guarding, be more aggressive in running off the edge and aerial attacking as soon as you can. You use fair too much on stage and not enough off stage. And in general you barely use bair at all which puzzled me since it works much better against Lucario than your fair.

 

[PokeStunts]

Thanks for the tips Twinkle, I'm having a really hard time edge guarding...I'll make sure to work on that. Also, I'm can't seem to pull off the trick where you run off the stage and grab the edge really fast, I can do it for other characters but not for Sonic >_<

I agree with my lack of bair, I would like to be able to use bair more often, but I'm having a hard time doing the "Reverse Aerial Rush" and not lose momentum.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Hm, well, practice that I guess. It's really simple so it's just an issue of timing which is definitely something that can be learned.

And you don't need to use the RAR to bair. Look at some of Lucky's videos, he does a lot of aerial attacks and maybe you can get some useful ideas.