Help a Pika out~!

[epidiOn]

Hey guys, I'm fairly new here. I read a lot more than I post. I've got a few questions that I haven't seen asked on these forums before, so I thought I'd compile a thread with them.

Match-Ups

First - I'm a Pikachu player, but I'm not very familiar with most of the match ups because all my friends play Kirby. I was wondering if people could give a basic overview of what to do against each opponent, using Hyrule as an example.
Pika vs Kirby - Use utilt to usmash to build up their percentage. Use throws to get them off the stage and edgeguard with down+b and bair.
Pika vs Falcon - I pretty much learned from the Isai vs Park on Peach's Castle YouTube video. From what I could see, Falcon is fairly easy to kill with low percentages because of his weak horizontal recovery. I've been practicing using mostly bair to edgeguard and kick them far out and use the double upB recovery.

So if people could critique what I have there and fill in the missing match ups with general ideas, that would be great.

Strategy/Combos
I've just recently started using dtilt and dsmash frequently. My usual attack combinations are fair to throw, fair to dsmash, utilt to usmash or utilt to dsmash, then follow those up with bair or nair to edgeguard/kick them farther along. I have been told that the Fsmash is good for edgeguarding everyone except floaties since it has such long range.

When z-cancelling (or teching?) I tend to roll when I hit the ground too much instead of just recovering, which often rolls me right back into my opponent's attack. Also, I know that bair is very useful for egdeguarding and attacking, but I find that I'm often facing towards my opponent and end up doing an fair instead, which has very little knockback and tends to mess up the way I'm trying to force my opponent.

I've found I have a bit of a problem edgeguarding Falcon because of his upB being an offensive move. Does bair or fair have a bigger hitbox than his upB, so I can use those, or should I stay back and avoid his upB and do a usmash when he comes back down?

Get the most out of practice?
Also, since I'm using Vista I have had a lot of problems playing lag-free online. I haven't found a point that I can really play using my computer, but I can some times get onto the desktop here and play using XP. As such, most of my playing is with my friends. They all play Kirby, every one of them. I'm better than them and I taught all of them. They mostly like to play 4player FFA. My question is - how can I make the best use of playing with them to improve? I'm guessing I should mostly focus on technical aspects like z-cancelling, teching and short-hopping, since it's hard to focus on 1v1 strategy since there are three other players instead of one.

I'm using an N64 controller with USB adapter, but I still have trouble short-hopping. I can do it fine when I'm focusing on practicing it, generally in training mode. When focusing only on that while doing training mode, I can usually get it about half the time. But as soon as I enter a battle with a moving opponent (even a computer) I lose focus on shorthopping, and my friends aren't good enough to punish it. Any suggestions on shorthop practice?

Hey, thanks for reading my long post! I hope these questions haven't been answered before, as I'd hate to be a bother.

//epi

 

[epidiOn]

It seems to me that all the match ups are pretty similar. Use utilt+usmash to juggle and bump percentage, use throws to get them off and bair to edgeguard. Is there anything particular to watch out for against each character?

 

[Umbrasquall]

Hey, you somehow remind me of myself when I first joined this forum lol.

About the sh and z-cancel problem, don’t stress about it. It takes time to get used to it. Whenever I first started trying to do it I’d always lose my ability to sh when I’m in real matches. Give it a few weeks.

Because Pikachu is such a well-rounded character, there are a lot of things you can exploit. But if everything else fails, Pika’s grab is one of the best in the game, and you can just fall back on that sometimes.

Against people with laggy recoveries such as Ness and Fox, your best bet when you edge guard is an off the edge b-air, u-air, or even n-air when they are trying to use their 3rd jump. Don’t try b-airs against Falcon because the up-B will likely get you. Use u-air instead, same concept for Samus, and DK. Just come from below them.

Use Pika’s high priority and agility to maneuver around your opponent. If you manage to start an up smash combo, use u-air or n-air instead of b-air, because that will allow you to extend the combo.

A general recovery tip is to be unpredictable with your quick attack recovery. Most people will use some variant of up and then across. Very predictable. Oh, and quick attack is good for getting out of combos.

Luigi: Be careful of the up-b, it’ll kill you at low damages. When you’re caught in a death combo use up-b to get out if you can. Other than that Luigi’s a pretty big target and easy to edgeguard since every Luigi player will be vulnerable after the tornado recovery. If you’re not off the edge, f-smash or d-tilt works well as an edgeguard if you watch carefully and time it right, since most players will try to sweet spot the edge.

Mario: Harder to guard because of the better fireballs. Against good players I don’t recommend off the edge guards unless an easy opportunity presents itself. Just stick with f-smash, but stay out of the range of the coin uppercut. Most Marios will try to finish you off with a u-smash at around 80%+ damage. The smash lasts long and has a disjointed hitbox, so watch out for that. Just try not to be too predictable and you should be able to avoid all non-comboed u-smashes. Combos don’t work very well against Mario and Luigi because of the fast stun recoveries into either down-B, n-air, or up-B. So be fast or don’t risk that 3rd hit.

Ness: Careful about the DJC-ed attacks. It’s hard to get through to a good Ness, but b-airs work fairly well because the hitbox extends out. Try not to approach Ness from the above, or above-sides. However good Ness players will always stick close to the ground and just DJC, so you’ll have to use some mindgames to gain the upperhand. Send some sparks their way when they’re DJC-ing and/or take advantage of the lag when they try to absorb the bolt. You’ll need to play defensive here, but Ness’s weight is good for Pika combos. And don’t forget the amazing recovery that Pika can abuse against Ness’s horrible one.

Yoshi: Shouldn’t be too hard. Just watch out for the DJC-ed aerials since they can change directions fast and be tricky. Good Yoshi players will usually be defensive because although DJCs have no recovery time, it’s still no match for Pika’s quick aerials. Yoshi can be comboed easily into an edgeguard. Just wait until the invincibility wears off and watch out for the down-B edgehog recoveries. Also don’t do f-smash edgeguards too much, because Yoshi will try to swallow you off the edge, albeit you can still get back because of Pika’s good recovery but Yoshi will be ready to pwn you. When coming back, be more unpredictable with your up-B because eggs will own you. Watch out for the dash too.

Link: Grab him, throw him off, and f-smash edgeguard. Lol.

Samus: Don’t try to combo, just go for the easy edgeguards with u-air. Don’t roll because Samus easily follows them.

DK: Easy to combo because of the weight, easy to edgeguard while he’s still a bit away from the edge but don’t try to f-smash or b-air to edgeguard DK. Watch out for the grabs and b-air.

Pika: Pretty hard match up. Grabs will kill fast on Dreamland. You’re going to need to be better than your opponent to win, obviously. Try to play defense and use u-tilt to guard.

Fox: This can be hard or easy. Pika’s the perfect weight for Fox. Stay close or get lasered to death. Watch out for the shine when you’re trying to combo. Isai’s House can be a boon or a curse, because you can combo and be comboed easily there. On the plus side Fox is fairly easy to edgeguard so make sure he spends more time off the stage then on it.

Kirby & Jiggly: Kirby can be comboed at lower damages. Both are actually not hard to edgeguard if you just predict the f-airs and pounds. Kirby is very vulnerable during the final cutter. Just watch out for the kill moves because Pika’s pretty light. Oh and Kirby’s u-tilt, watch out for that too. Play defensive to get them frustrated and on the offensive. Kirby and Jiggly approaches are easily predicted and countered.

Falcon: Easy as long as you don’t get hit, cause Falcon can easily 0-death you, esp. on Dreamland. The good thing is that Falcon’s has a pretty slow recovery after doing a move, so mindgame them into u-smashing or something. In general use the same strategy as against Link.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

how do you write sooooo much??? the most I can get is like 3 lines LOL

 

[Rupus]

Boom, all you EVER do is one line posts. You know that's against the rules, right?

Anyway, this looks good, but I wouldn't edgeguard with Down B. Down air is a lot better, and gives you more mobility.

 

[epidiOn]

Well the only time I use downB is when the throw put them pretty far up into the air and the floaties fly way too high to attack, because even if the bolt misses I'll have time to recover even if they fast fall. If it hits it will probably hit them above the top of the stage.

Why dair? Sure, it stops them and stuns them, but it doesn't have a spike or a knockback, and it gets you a lot lower than you'd like to be. If they're that close, wouldn't it be easier to just bair right before they upB?

@Umbra - thanks so much for taking the time to make that gigantic post, I really appreciate it. How do I remind you of yourself?

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Dair certainly has a knockback, I think Meow meant that you short-hop and slide a little over the edge so they run right into it. DON'T fastfall the dair-- you should, especially on a controller, be able to dair without moving downwards at the same time.

And don't go crazy over the bairs, they can't combo at most %s, they aren't the best killer-attacks, and they're a bit slow. After you upsmash, sometimes your opponent's % is just high enough so that they can attack back or get out of the way before you are able to bair them (the bair is delayed, unlike Nair or Uair).

Also the drop-down jump Uair edgeguard, as Umbra suggested, is VERY effective against characters like Falcon.

 

[epidiOn]

Oh okay. Is there a way to drop down and hang onto the ledge without jumping backwards, falling and catching it?

 

[Box_of_Fox]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean. But here's the order for most of my edgeguards

Easy Effective-- run off the ledge, fastfall/non-fastfall drop, jump up and uair your opponent when they are in the middle of or right before their B recovery. Try and hit with the tip if you are facing forward when you attack them, or hitting with Pika's *** if you're facing opposite them.

Harder Effective-- same thing, only jump up quickly and Nair instead. This isn't as quick as the Uair but its better to do if someone has already released their B recovery, and you are trying to outprioritize them.

Harder but Safe-- This one I figured out more from mistakes than anything-- drop off the ledge and fair them, they shouldn't move too far back, but the moment the Fair ends, jump or up-B very quickly and then edgeguard-- now they are FORCED to use their up-B to recover, enabling you a quick dtilt or maybe if u have time, a fsmash edgeguard. I don't recommend doing this one, its more effective against people with slower horizontal recoveries like DK.

Effective-- Short-hop off the ledge but don't drop down, and then dair as you reach the apex of your jump. The dair has a nice-long duration and odd hitbox, so you'll often hit your opponent in the last few frames of it and catch them off guard.

Really Hard but Super effective-- I can't use this myself b/c I'm on a keyboard but superboom managed to do it twice against me last time I played him and the second time I only recovered from it b/c I was pikachu myself :D. Drop off the edge and nair your opponent who is coming up from below. They should be hit decently far from the edge, while STILL dropping, tilt your controller forward and uair without jumping again. You should hit them twice, and unless they have an amazing recovery this almost always kills. This doesn't work against people with medium %s-- only low 0%s. And if you do it against people with high %s, the nair usually kills them anyway.

 

[epidiOn]

Oh okay, thanks for the tips! I was asking what is the easiest way to edgehog. What is the easiest way to get your character hanging on to the edge so you can either edgehog or come at them from below as they try to recover?

 

[Box_of_Fox]

Yes admittedly there is no "wavedash to edgehog" like in Melee, and also in that, z-rolling after holding onto the edge doesn't work well.

The easiest way is to simply towards the stage when near the edge, short-hop backwards and drop just a tad so you grab the edge.

Also, some of the edgeguards w/ Pikachu I mentioned before can be down if you start out pressing backward when holding onto the ledge (or downward, but that's risky+++ unless you're opponent is honestly right below you)

 

[Umbrasquall]

The only exception is that Yoshi can do a very fast edgehog with his DJC.

N-air is great for edgeguarding. Especially against characters like Fox. Besides trying n-air then u-air like Box says (I've never seen it done myself), try n-air, jump, n-air. Works great and the 2nd n-air knocks them further than an u-air would.

 

[Umbrasquall]

The only exception is that Yoshi can do a very fast edgehog with his DJC.

N-air is great for edgeguarding. Especially against characters like Fox. Besides trying n-air then u-air like Box says (I've never seen it done myself), try n-air, jump, n-air. Works great and the 2nd n-air knocks them further than an u-air would.

EDIT: Btw, you have to start the first n-air early, or it'll throw your opponent too far away for the 2nd n-air to hit.

 

[cmasterchoe]

I've found an effective edguard is (now timing is crucial here) go into a fair on ur first jump and then as you finish, immediately hit your second jump followed by a nair. I like to hit c-down and then R for this one because i dont' have to button slide and mess up the timing, if they are at a high enough percentage, it'll usually guarantee they won't come back. again, be careful when u choose to do this. Make sure they aren't above u, esp samus or kirby or ness. You want to be almost level, and hit them before they do their up-B

 

[Winston]

You guys are talking about edgeguarding? >__> That's totally pika's strong point, he's got like 5 things that work.

Lol @ umbra's description of the falcon matchup... "just don't get hit and you're ok". =P Considering that most attacks from the air are suicide (you have to be quite careful to avoid eating an upsmash), and that falcon is more maneuverable on the ground than pika, that's pretty hard.

I think falcon has the advantage in that matchup... thoughts?

And LOL @ boom. same for me =P well this is like the longest I ever go

 

[Zabutur]

hey, that description helped my Pika out.

 

[cmasterchoe]

basically with falcon you gotta attack him from the side and side only. Attack him from above and the ridiculous usmash/uair will kick in, attack him from below and DAIR TO THA FACE... so basically catching him from the sides is where he's most vulnerable... that doesn't leave a huge window (if you're playin a really good falcon anyway)

 

[ant-d]

Short hop double ANA

 

[Winston]

basically with falcon you gotta attack him from the side and side only. Attack him from above and the ridiculous usmash/uair will kick in, attack him from below and DAIR TO THA FACE... so basically catching him from the sides is where he's most vulnerable... that doesn't leave a huge window (if you're playin a really good falcon anyway)

Untrue about the dair, your vertical attacks should beat them =P

In general, a well timed upwards attack should beat a downwards attack. Pika's uptilt is pretty good for this...

 

[Umbrasquall]

It's like how computers always manage to up aerial counter your down aerials.