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Hax vs S2J - Analysis Incoming

thespymachine

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
830
Location
Henderson, NV
While this could be 100% my fanboyism speaking/thinking, I think it's pertinent to understand what Hax did to get the win over S2J.


What are some moments, positions, moves, etc. of note during their ditto that could be beneficial to us Falcon mains?

 

Beat!

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
3,214
Location
Uppsala, Sweden
I don't have anything to contribute to the actual topic as I'm not a Falcon main, but I just wanted to say that I think this is a great idea that I might steal in the future.
 

thespymachine

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
830
Location
Henderson, NV
I don't have anything to contribute to the actual topic as I'm not a Falcon main, but I just wanted to say that I think this is a great idea that I might steal in the future.
Steal it. Right now.

I guess we gave up on this?
Yeah... I forgot. Got caught up in everything else post-EVO.
I'll try to watch this sometime this weekend and post my noob analysis.
 

thespymachine

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
830
Location
Henderson, NV
I just wish the whole set was legit
They played, at least, 30 minutes of friendlies the day before and it seemed like Hax had an edge.
S2J seemed to use those friendlies as a way to gauge Hax, which is why he did well the first game.
But nerves man.... both of them didn't play as well as they have in the past.
 

Windrose

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,470
well first game in the set, hax suicides twice. but with the stocks that hax did well on, he did a lot more tech chase regrab and reads out of grabs then s2j. but any mistake can lead to being off stage and easy edge guard in falcon dittos and s2j got some good hits in and this plus the suicides put first game in s2j's hand.

after watching all 3 games. hax got more out of his advantages then s2j did. s2j dropped stuff more often. his conversions weren't as consistent as hax. s2j also does some weird non optimal edge guarding like dash attack on pokemon stadium when he had guaranteed knee or back air or a bunch of other things. it's probably just nerves as he lost his stocks quite early once or twice on that stage due to suicides.

hax also uses up airs way more effectively outside of combos. he uses a lot more instant short hop upairs and other sorts of upairs to poke at s2j which is very good for aerial wars.

============================

lessons learned:
-aim to convert more out of your hits and grabs. tech chase regrabbing more, doing safer hit options out of throws instead of super hard reads.
-suicides suck and kill your momentum
-upairs are great and underused by a lot of falcons except hax. it has many applications that are not well explored by most falcons.
 

thespymachine

Smash Ace
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
830
Location
Henderson, NV
Alright, so like I said before, these two played friendlies with each other for at least half an hour the day prior - and, from what I saw, it looked like Hax had the edge. [They were both very quiet and seemingly casual about it - but I'm sure both were taking notes, lol]


Game 1 - 0:37
What this game basically came down to were two things:
  1. S2J's quick gimp @0:48 that really set his momentum
  2. Hax making recovery mistakes @1:27 and 2:30

Game 2 - 3:19
Very even game. You can tell that Hax started to implement the up-air to control the space above him, and to set up potential combo situations.
Hax's first KO came from a really good string of moves/reads starting around @ 3:30
S2J missed two EG opportunities, though ended up getting a KO in the same sequence of one of them - while Hax simplified his EG game, basically holding the edge, lol.
Also, a couple of not-so-wise aggressive attempts by Hax got him killed at @ 3:49 and 5:31

Game 3 - 6:26
Hax extended S2J's first stock by not converting on an EG @ 7:26 (props to S2J on changing up his upB movement), which ended up putting him at an unhealthy 124% and could have swayed the game in a big way.
Other than that, S2J get's Pokemon Stadium'd twice @ 8:04 and 8:53. And Hax plays solidly getting a go EG at the end.

--------------------------------------------

Synopsis:
- Nerves were running really high, and we only really got to see great play from both of them at once in Game 2.
- Hax uses up-air and S2J uses bair more; and Hax seems more movement based in playstyle, while S2J is more position based (if that makes sense).
- This is the set Falcon mains deserve, but not the one it needs right now.

============================

Lessons Learned (pretty much exactly what Windrose said):
- Don't over-extend yourself by going for hard reads or questionable combo continuers/enders - tech-chase regrab more, upair instead of fair, etc
- Falcon has strong (dair and fair) and useful (bair and upair) edge-game aerials , so simplify your edgeguarding game by bair/upairing your opponent when they're behind/above you and only go for fair/dair kills when they show themselves, don't force them (unless you're Mango, then just reverse knee all day, I don't care)
 
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