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Having trouble with the shiek matchup

damncracka

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
Messages
7
I can do well vs my friend's spacies with grabs and gimps but i'm having so much trouble with his shiek. I just get chain grabbed to 50% and then he finishes with a fair. My movement isn't the best, but it honestly feels unwinnable if he gets a grab
 
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_trix_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
147
Location
Chicago
Imo, the best way to beat sheik is to just work on your punish game. Pikachu can punish slightly harder than her imho, its just alot more difficult to do it with pikachu. If you do that, you force her to win neutral more than you, which is very difficult given your superior mobility
 

damncracka

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
Messages
7
How would you suggest practicing pika's punish? Most large punishes I get are off of hard reads or missed techs, but what options do I have (or what combos are available)?
 

_trix_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
147
Location
Chicago
just practice converting off tech chases, upsmashes, and grabs vs cpu sheiks and then work on it vs an actual sheik. Converting positional advantage off things like upair is also really important.
 

bboss

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Messages
478
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
this is a horrible mu. if your have any secondaries i would recommend playing them as this is the worst matchup of characters within the top 10.
 

atara

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
47
ICs is much worse for Pikachu than Sheik once the ICs is able to wobble even inconsistently. Puff-Samus, Peach-ICs, Puff-Peach, Puff-Pika, Falco-Falcon, and Falcon-Samus are probably all worse than Sheik-Pika.

In fact I think Falco might be a harder matchup than Sheik for Pikachu. Fox is really hard too. The chaingrab is overrated since if you understand Pikachu's defense reasonably well you should be living until 120%ish every stock and you can get out of the cg before 50%.
 
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_trix_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
147
Location
Chicago
The CG only goes till 15 or 20%. It's basically non-existent lol. Pikachu sheik being even relatively a bad matchup is an extremely out-dated opinion
 

atara

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
47
The CG only goes till 15 or 20%. It's basically non-existent lol. Pikachu sheik being even relatively a bad matchup is an extremely out-dated opinion
What? The chaingrab goes to 38%. Only the best Sheiks should be able to pull it off if you're good at DI. Laudandus chaingrabbed the **** out of me in friendlies at a regional recently and I usually got out somewhere between 20% and 50%. I missed the jump out sometimes and he missed the regrab sometimes. I tried mixing up slight backward and slight forward DI but really just doing slight backward seems to be about as good or maybe mixing that up with know-dee-eye

I wouldn't call the matchup good. But I think Falco is worse. The only stage where Sheik is really really bad is FD.
 
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_trix_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
147
Location
Chicago
If you watch axe vs anyone in the past few months, he's been getting out at 15-20% constantly vs the very highest level sheiks. Also axe beats shroomed all the time lol. It's been a struggle for shroomed recently actually, I think axe has won like the last 7.
 

atara

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
47
If you watch axe vs anyone in the past few months, he's been getting out at 15-20% constantly vs the very highest level sheiks.
Axe usually won't approach until he can do it below or near a platform so he can get out. I'm very sure you can't jump out before 38%. Maybe it's like 35% if it starts at an awkward % for some reason.
 

_trix_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
147
Location
Chicago
LOL. Go on youtube and search "Axe vs sheik" and put the time setting to sets in the past few months. It doesn't even go past 20% if you escape right. Idk where you're getting the 38% number. Also, lmao at pikachu being 14-15 with gannondorf.
 

bboss

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 29, 2016
Messages
478
Location
New Brunswick, Canada
LOL. Go on youtube and search "Axe vs sheik" and put the time setting to sets in the past few months. It doesn't even go past 20% if you escape right. Idk where you're getting the 38% number. Also, lmao at pikachu being 14-15 with gannondorf.
Name a good pika except for Axe and ESAM.
 

SSBM Tao

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 20, 2017
Messages
31
LOL. Go on youtube and search "Axe vs sheik" and put the time setting to sets in the past few months. It doesn't even go past 20% if you escape right. Idk where you're getting the 38% number. Also, lmao at pikachu being 14-15 with gannondorf.
It's sad that the best character in the game (pika) has to breathe the same air as ugly ganon. But pika is in that 12-14 range. :(
 

damncracka

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 13, 2016
Messages
7
If you watch axe vs anyone in the past few months, he's been getting out at 15-20% constantly vs the very highest level sheiks. Also axe beats shroomed all the time lol. It's been a struggle for shroomed recently actually, I think axe has won like the last 7.
Is axe mashing out and what DI is he using to escape the chaingrab? I can't seem to escape til 40%
 

_trix_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
147
Location
Chicago
D damncracka axe DI's onto sheiks head and ever so slightly behind and then uses tap jump to buffer a jump(it buffers for 3 frames) to get out the first actionable frame. Doing that alone it goes to 35%, but axe also implements ambigious DI, making it basically a read for sheik to grab the right direction and get it after 20%. Given that going for a 50-50 read and potentially dropping it right there and losing everything is not worth it, sheiks are just forced to uptilt or upsmash after 20% if you do it right. It is unbeliavably freaking hard to do all that, I still can't do it anywhere close to as well as axe. Takes alot of practice.
 
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