Handling Falco Shield Pressure

[CanadianBakn]

Hey guys,

I'm fairly new to competitive play, I have played about 6-8 months beyond a "hey, 4 player, forward smash is fun" level. I know how to l-cancel, wavedash, waveland from edge, perform all aerials from edge, and am finally getting competent enough with my fundamentals that I can spend more time watching my opponent and making adaptations.

I am having trouble against a friend of mine who is a very aggressive but also somewhat smart Falco player. I would say I make reads, adaptations, have more experience than him and space better, but he's absolutely a tech monster and is relentless with dair->shine on my shield. This is the product of lots of solo tech practice instead of playing against people, he will get better with his experience. He doesn't miss cancels - shield grabs will not work on him.

Besides having better spacing and not letting him in in the first place, what can I do to combat him if he is sheild pressuring me with repeated dair to shines?

Here's a few options I've thought about. Several of these are above my current level of tech, but I can learn:

• buffer a roll with c-stick (what should I do after?)
• buffer a jump with c-stick, use it to jump-cancel counter (good as a gimmick a few times, especially because when he is pressuring he just auto-pilots a lot)
• reverse up+b OOS
• wavedash OOS

Question 2, how should I SDI his stuff once he lands a hit? Should I be trying to go down into a platform for a tech escape, away to break his combo and break out of tumble animation to throw out a fair? He tends to just pillar you relentlessly then shine->bair to finish off or dair spike if off stage, his combo game is really quite good but I think part of it is my DI sucks.

Also, any other general tips for the falco matchup in the neutral game? If he's already in air I do an empty hop and fair if I see him come in, on ground I use my dash dancing with occasional dtilts, preferring to get a grab and tossing him up to platform for tech chase or chaingrabbing if no platform above.

 

[artofskjet]

For SDI change it up make him wave shine for that pillar and usually when he's really close a normal up b is good and shield grabbing is okay. You defs want to grab him and try to get the lead as quickly as possible.

 

[Sozen the Phoenix]

Like you talked about it's mostly just avoiding the situation. Every option is good, but it's more about reading his patterns with shield pressure. For example, he might do late aerial>shine>early aerial, which means you can do something before the next shine. if it's >late aerial> shine> late aerial you can either try and do something in-between the first shine and the second aerial, or wait until after the second shine and read from there. Often people get into patterns with their shield pressure and you said yourself that he autopilots for it often. Often wavedash back is good, sometimes rolling is pretty good. It's often about escaping the pressure and just taking the punish. Shield can be good if you can predict their patterns or see them miss an lcancel or something like that (won't happen often).
For the neutral game question, one huge thing is don't just learn to powershield. Learn to use that powershield to your advantage. Learn to wavedash out to grab, or punish other ways. Ice's marth is really great at this. (possibly his sheik too, haven't watched much of that).

 

[Syrup on da sid]

WD out of shield and run back in to grab, thats what people have taught me to do, im still learning too

 

[Kadano]

Counter out of shield is pretty good against Falcos who love to go crazy on your shield. It’s even better to use it earlier, instead of shielding. I personally find it hard to use it appropriately and not start spamming it, but I’m sure it can be used in a smart way so that your opponent won’t expect it.

I only recommend it when you’re out of space, though – whenever you still have some stage behind you, you should make use of that.

 

[artofskjet]

Power shielding lasers could slow him down and in obvious dair situations you can counter. shines are difficult to counter and will leave you open for some of those dangerous falco punishes

 

[dtmm]

wavedash oos is definitely a good option. shield grab is still an option if they mess up their shield pressure, so just watch for if they get stuck in shine or miss a fast fall. mix up sdi i'd say so they don't know where you're going each time. di-ing out of the combo is alright. marth isn't terribly heavy (or floaty for that matter), so you can di out and through out fair or something. your neutral game strategy sounds pretty solid. you can either be aggressive like ken or mango, or dash dance a lot and through out d tilts like m2k. I prefer to dash dance and move around the platforms to avoid lasers then try to get a grab and throw falco onto a platform to start doing marth things (up tilts, upair, waveland grab, f smash, f tilt, etc.). powershielding/counter can be a good way to break pressure, but countering too much can become predictable and baited out.

 

[Astraea31]

Hey Jon it's Bobby! We talked on reddit. Man, I got wrecked last 2 tournies >_> You wanna come over some time and practice? My room is kind of small so I think it can only fit 2-3 people.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Power shielding is not something to rely on. It's nice if you can do it but it's not winning you the matchup alone.

I will compile a list of options to get around Falco's shield pressure and stage presence in general:

1. Lasers from midscreen ...
Never put up your shield until the last second that a laser would hit you or an aerial/dash attack could possibly connect. By shielding preemptively, you are giving Falco free time to set up his lasers, and this would be a game state that you would perpetuate throughout the entire match and probably the entire set. Obviously, you don't want to ever give somebody free reign over any aspect of the game, so avoid this at all costs. If Falco lasers in place (without jumping toward you in the process) you might want to hold your ground. Try to power shield the laser if you can, but if you fail, you will want to drop your shield as quickly as possible, or wavedash out of shield depending on your proximity to Falco. The problem that lasers in place present to you is that you cannot forward-air out of shield immediately after the laser, as it will whiff. You would have to wait for him to come in range and then fair, but that is not ideal. Generally you want to get out of shield quickly if you can. If the Falco is playing particularly campy, he's less likely to approach you after one laser: you might have an opportunity to wavedash forward out of shield and pressure him with downtilt, dash attack, fair, grab, even f-smash potentially. I

If the Falco has shown himself to be rushdowny, aggressive, and such, you will have to come up with an evasive action or throw out a move that will "stuff" him out of his approach. Generally for the latter, fair serves the purpose. F-smash is riskier but has a much larger and lingering hitbox with the potential to straight up kill Falco if it tips with poor DI. Throw these out sparingly but don't be afraid to let it rip if you are confident in your spacing. You probably won't hit a raw forward smash on a Falco who understands ranges at all; Falco has frame advantage if he hits you with a laser (or hits your shield with a laser). Raw f-smash can work if you let the laser hit you and time the f-smash after you come out of stun. Very risky though if you are closer than midrange because Falco will be able to put a hitbox out first, and if this occurs you will be bopped out of your startup animation. Depending on how much room you have to retreat to away from Falco, you will be looking to potentially wavedash away out of shield and react to his subsequent attack with fairs, d-tilts, f-smash, grabs, etc.

Fair out of shield deserves an entire paragraph for itself alone. Typically, you are not going to fair while moving forward. Let yourself drift backward when you fair out of shield, or stay in place. Obviously you want to short hop fair for the most part. Full jumping vs Falco in neutral is atrociously bad as you have to find a way to get your footing back, and a good Falco will laser you on landing or dash attack you depending on how you attempt to get down. It can take a while to get the hang of the distance that Falco needs to be at to catch him with a nice SH fair out of shield. If he does a running short hop laser and lands in front of you, obviously you are not going to have time to SH. So try to get the hang of judging the distance. Be careful to not respond to an approach with this option every time, otherwise you WILL get baited to SH fair and you will get dash attacked or SHFFL daired in the face into a fat combo.

Dash attacking is a great way to slide under lasers and pop up Falco in the air to cut him to ribbons. It's very good for catching Falco on a retreating laser as well, or even SHL in place. Again, don't overuse, as he will just start shield grabbing you for it (or worse, punishing with dair out of shield).

 

[ChivalRuse]

2. One SHL's distance away...
At this distance, Falco can running short hop laser, land precisely in front of your shield, and shine (or grab [or shine grab!]). This is a weird situation because depending on how you read the approach, you can get a free hit, or Falco will end up getting past your first line of defense (f-air range) for free. You can try to bat him out in this situation but if Falco is astute he'll wait for you to swing and jump in afterwards. You can react to SH dair or nair with dash dance shenanigans, but a SHL at this range can be sticky. Sometimes you might have to shield out of caution, then it becomes a question of how Falco pressures you after shine: he can shine grab, shine to instant aerial, shine to delayed aerial, waveshine back, waveshine through your shield, shine to SHL to try to chase your roll, etcetera.

Light shielding can be nice in this situation, because your shield will be pushed away from him as he hits it, and there is less chance of getting shield stabbed. You can roll if you are feeling like he isn't scouting it. Wavedash out of shield can be fine depending on the intervals in shine and dair. If he does shine sh delayed d-air, you have all day to wavedash backwards out of shield. But shine->instant dair will give you problems. Counter out of shield (like jump and mash down b instantly) is good a good way to get Falco out of your hair. It's amazing if you use it sparingly and only so-so if you overuse it (obviously a good player will wreck you for counter abuse). I find it is pretty good against non-grab-heavy Falcos).

Punishing dash attack: If you try to shield grab dash attack that goes slightly past your shield, it will not work. You have to SH dair out of shield to punish this (or wavedash out of shield punish).

3. SHL and a half distance...
At this distance, Falco needs to SHL while running then running SH(anyaerial) can cross up your shield. He can alternatively go for a jump cancelled grab. This is the ideal situation for you as Marth, as any of Falco's attacking options put him in striking distance for a SH fair out of shield. Now, needless to say a keen Falco can bait SH or wavedash out of shield and punish you (namely with dash attack). But you should try to feel more comfortable at this range, because you actually have options here. The cross up aerial can even be dodged by wavedashing toward and under Falco!

Depending on how fast you act out of shield, you can usually wavedash twice backward to get somewhat clear of Falco's happy feet, but Falco can pursue you quite easily. So you might want to threaten with tilts or more fairs. I don't like to retreat to platforms too much with Marth because Falco has an easy time poking you with backairs and also Marth's options coming down aren't too good. I do recommend SH backward floating fair in this situation because usually worst case scenario you can trade a second fair with Falco if he tries to pursue.

Huge piece of advice for neutral game. Falco will not always laser you before coming in with an attack; SH aerial, dash attack, random smash, whatever. He will occasionally just throw out attacks without covering himself with the safety of a spaced laser. In that case, you absolutely have to be ready to punish. Dash dance grab is the easiest way to punish this kind of behavior with consistency, but you can opt for an fsmash if you feel your reaction is good enough and the percent warrants it.

Hope this helps!

 

[CanadianBakn]

Thank you everyone for the great replies. Nice stuff Chival.

Hey Jon it's Bobby! We talked on reddit. Man, I got wrecked last 2 tournies >_> You wanna come over some time and practice? My room is kind of small so I think it can only fit 2-3 people.

Bobby, get Facebook. Seriously. Much more reliable way to communicate/get a hold of me, and any time we're meeting somewhere we post on the Winnipeg Smash group. As for playing sometime, sure.

 

[Astraea31]

Thank you everyone for the great replies. Nice stuff Chival.



Bobby, get Facebook. Seriously. Much more reliable way to communicate/get a hold of me, and any time we're meeting somewhere we post on the Winnipeg Smash group. As for playing sometime, sure.

I don't use Facebook for personal reasons. By the way somebody from a radio station was taking pictures of our tournament, and I gave Adam contact information to someone that could help you guys with a possible sponsorship.