Greninja Nerfed?

[Kikaioh]

I saw the Smash update this morning and installed it, and I'm not sure if it's just me, but Greninja seems to have been nerfed kind of considerably. Most noticeably, I can't seem to do the shadow sneak after a Dive Kick anymore, and maybe I'm remembering wrong, but it used to be I could dash into an Up Smash pretty easily before, and now I have to noticeably stop first.

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

Dair into Shadow Sneak or any aerial into SS was removed. Up Smash also now has some lag on the move. I am not sure if it is start up or ending lag. I'll check with my friend.

 

[Spirst]

Dair into Shadow Sneak or any aerial into SS was removed. Up Smash also now has some lag on the move. I am not sure if it is start up or ending lag. I'll check with my friend.

Endlag. Animation has to end completely before an input is registered.

Hydro pump also has less of a windbox effect now and uair spiking is considerably weaker/has to be done earlier in the hit.

 

[Ecol]

It's being discuss in the stickied thread.

But yeah, Uair got nerfed (no killing potential, harder to land all hits, less vacuum effect) and you can't fastfall during Shadow Sneak to appear below either.

 

[Kenjin]

Seriously, **** you Nintendo, Greninja appears to be a mid tier now...
I DO hope he will be rebuffed next patch, he really needs to.

 

[Kikaioh]

Ugh. Shadow sneak after a dive kick was good to add some mixup to the move, but now it's just one fat laggy missed landing waiting to happen. The Up Smash nerf though, that really sucks. It had such a good flow to it, and now it just feels blocky and unresponsive.

I hate having a moveset etched in twitch memory, only to be unlearned. Balance patches should make bad characters better, instead of making good characters worse.

 

[Spirst]

What sucks is that we got hit harder than Rosalina it seems. We lost more of our combo potential, the potency of our best gimping tool, and any cool little tricks like FF SS or FF Uair or aerials being canceled by SS. Some of that I feel is unwarranted, biases aside.

 

[RanserSSF4]

I still think Greninja is a solid character and I still enjoy him, but I do agree that his nerfs hurt him a lot. The UpSmash and SS I understand, but the Uair nerf is so not needed. What was the point of nerfing it to begin with? True, it deals lots of damage, but it's easily escapable with Vectoring and it only works on Low percents and at high %, it's also easily escapable since you can tech roll or air dodge after being bounced off the ground.

My Theory is that most of the players online either complained about it or Nintendo saw the video that showcased it and decided to nerf it.

He still has good spacing, gimping, and edgeguarding. His combo potential is still there, it just isn't as effective as before (Pun Intended).

 

[Karasu]

Did anyone notice some priority-changes? I had the feeling Greninja's Aerials and Up-Smash have now lower priority since this one Pikachu today could outprioritize mine pretty good. Or did Pikachu just recive a great buff?

 

[Tomas Fer]

No, I feel priorities are still the same, but yeah, gonna take some time to get used to the Usmash nerf.

 

[Karasu]

No, I feel priorities are still the same, but yeah, gonna take some time to get used to the Usmash nerf.

Good to know if this is true. Still strange that this little Pikachu could hit me trough my good-ranged Aerials. Seems like Electric-types DO have an advantage :D

Anyways, I think (and hope) Greninja will still be a good Character. He could always fight with one move less (Down-B) and was very great. I don't understand why they nerfed that much and didn't buff the sub.
I tested it a bit and it is just like before. No buff was gained from this patch.

 

[imabaer]

Could someone test out the Down B? I'm not sure if it comes out a bit quicker, or if I'm just being optimistic.

 

[iLink]

So I heard water shuriken has more cooldown after being thrown. Does this ruin the shuriken > fair/usmash combo from working or the shuriken > grab on block?

Haven't updated yet because I have a bunch of replays that need to be recorded.

Also are these legit?

- U-smash damage reduced by 2%-3%
- F-smash damage reduced by 5%-4%
- Fair damage reduced by 3%, Fair launch distance decreased significantly - hardly a kill option anymore.

 

[Karasu]

So I heard water shuriken has more cooldown after being thrown. Does this ruin the shuriken > fair/usmash combo from working or the shuriken > grab on block?

Haven't updated yet because I have a bunch of replays that need to be recorded.

Also are these legit?

- U-smash damage reduced by 2%-3%
- F-smash damage reduced by 5%-4%
- Fair damage reduced by 3%, Fair launch distance decreased significantly - hardly a kill option anymore.

The thing with the Shuriken and Fair would explain why Pikachu could hit me that easily despite the fact I always landed my hit before the update. I don't have a second 3DS to test the Shuriken-Speed though.
Noticed a little buff: His Down-Smash is more powerful! It does now 13%-18%. Can someone with two 3DS confirm if it has more knockback or range?

BTW, it seems you can't run and Up-Smash anymore. It seems that it is still possible but harder to pull off.

 

[ArhyLis]

Is it me, or does Utilt seem to set up Bairs or any aerials depending how you hit them? Bair feels... better. Like you can hit easier.

 

[KERO]

So I heard water shuriken has more cooldown after being thrown. Does this ruin the shuriken > fair/usmash combo from working or the shuriken > grab on block?

Haven't updated yet because I have a bunch of replays that need to be recorded.

Also are these legit?

- U-smash damage reduced by 2%-3%
- F-smash damage reduced by 5%-4%
- Fair damage reduced by 3%, Fair launch distance decreased significantly - hardly a kill option anymore.

You can no longer grab out someone inside of a fully charged Shuriken, but Fair and Usmash out of it still work at low percents (you have to be closer now obviously). Assuming you're within a character length of him, you can get an Fair out of it until around 47% on Mario (you can land a Shadow Dash out of it until around 59%). You can get a Usmash out of it until about 22%.

Usmash damage has not been reduced from what I can tell (it still nets 20% if both hits connect). Training Mode shows the usual 19% as usual. I can't speak for Fair, but it may be slightly weaker (still a solid kill option at 140%+).

 

[stancosmos]

I was considering using Greninja as a secondairy until today when i saw the nerfs. I'll still give him a go, but nerfing his up smash was definitely a game-changer.. I feel getting rid of greninja's SS cancel was a good move, as it was probably unintentional in the first place.

 

[Funkermonster]

Is it me, or does Utilt seem to set up Bairs or any aerials depending how you hit them? Bair feels... better. Like you can hit easier.

I think its just you. In my experience, I was already able to combo into Bair (as well as Uair or Nair) from Utilt before the patch came, did it all the time against people who spam rolls to get behind me. Bair feels the same as before to me.

 

[mightychir]

I'm really upset over the sliding Usmash removal. I would often poke dtilt and then proceed with dashing u smash then sometimes whatever aerial to follow and now its really hard or not viable at all. Ending lag for usmash doesn't help either haha. Hopefully there is some benefit/buff we haven't noticed yet...

I've been losing on 1v1 more frequently now but maybe its because I'm still upset over the patch and its affecting my play haha.

 

[DrTechnoBabel]

I can't really say I'm skilled enough with Greninja to notice most of the nerfs, but I have noticed the Hydro Pump push being a little harder to pull off and especially the Up-Smash nerf. A shame, but Greninja still feels good enough to be my main.

 

[ZeroLifeBowser]

I didn't get the game until after the update, but I sensed something was weird about greninja.

I couldn't formulate a combo very well, atleast nothing that wasn't easy to escape.

"oh you just suck dude" granted I suck, but that never stopped me from making decent combos before. Greninja is now stuck with single hits, and with fB being easy to read and dB being useless, uB losing the ability to push, his air game superior to little mac, I'm surprised people still say he's decent. I think the only people who say that don't use greninja as a main. They just want him to be nerfed so they can have an easier victory.

 

[HakuryuVision]

I would be completely fine with the nerfs if only they buffed his substitute. : /
-Then again i got the game & started playing after said nerfs.

 

[Shack]

I didn't get the game until after the update, but I sensed something was weird about greninja.

I couldn't formulate a combo very well, atleast nothing that wasn't easy to escape.

"oh you just suck dude" granted I suck, but that never stopped me from making decent combos before. Greninja is now stuck with single hits, and with fB being easy to read and dB being useless, uB losing the ability to push, his air game superior to little mac, I'm surprised people still say he's decent. I think the only people who say that don't use greninja as a main. They just want him to be nerfed so they can have an easier victory.

Only Decent you say?

Single hits you say?
https://vine.co/u/1135825187007569920

Very few are on this level yet. Once you can start Perfect Pivoting in matches, you might view him differently. His Dtilt sets up all his combos and USmash. So being able to pivot into it or retreat with it is awesome. Also his UTilt has a wide hit box that hits on both sides so that is also a great move to pivot into.