Greninja MUs.

[3DSNinja]

I honestly just want to no what all of you other Greninjas think about our matchups. Honestly pretty much I think we win against Bayo and are even against Snake and that's all I know at the moment.

 

[Lampwick]

I'm pretty terrible at the game in general, but I feel like he's pretty balanced around the board. His best matchups are slightly better, and his worst ones are slightly worse. I actually feel he struggles a ton against heavy zone characters like Simon, especially ones with reflects or absorbs, like Zelda and ROB.

I'd say his best matchups are against aggressive spacers and rushdowns, like Marth & Co. or Little Mac.

I can't wait to get better at the full matchup spread - I got into Greninja due to how consistent he feels in matchups. As somebody who doesn't like maining multiple characters, it's nice to have a main that can hold their own in all matchups. It's why I dropped Simon after reaching ~3.4m GSP

 

[Dwho?]

I dont have a ton of match up experience against a lot of the cast, but I feel like he struggles against heavys. Specifically DK, D3 and King K Rool. Ill Explain

Starting with Greninja's glaring weakness; His weight. Greninja is very light so it's easy for a DK to kill us early. He can kill with just about any grab at 100 if near a ledge. Since DK is heavy, it's harder to kill him. In this fight, although I do believe Greninja can have the upper hand, generally I find myself struggling to beat DK players.
D3 is tough because of his ridiculous range and power. This match is very hard for me (greninja) Similar reasons to DK. I have a video I need to upload vs a D3 player. Some really weird movement mechanic happened.
King K Rool is heavy as F*ck. He can camp greninja out very well. Racks up damage very quickly (uThrow deals 20 damage w/o pummel) KK Rool's dThrow stops greninja in the ground and is guaranteed to combo into Ftilt. This kills at 100ish. King K Rool also can eat attacks through a couple different moves, Nair being the one that pops in my head first.
King K Rool can get very messed up by a cheeky hydropump if you shoot them well above the stage while trying to gimp the recovery.

 

[Schroe]

I’ve been playing basically only Greninja since the game came out, sitting at 3.7mill in Elite online currently. I must say that the match-ups I struggle with the most are usually characters that force me to have to approach them and don’t allow Greninja a chance to take advantage of Water Shuriken.

Not sure about what Dwho? is struggling with when it comes to heavies but any decent Greninja should be able to weave in between the hit-boxes of heavy characters and juggle them to no end, not giving them room to breath usually.

However I will say that smaller characters like Pichu/Pikachu and Squirtle, etc definitely have an advantage over Greninja because it’s kinda hard to land a good short hop F-air on them.

Greninja also has a low profile; however, he is quite a lanky fellow and when in disadvantage and he is combo’d relatively easily. Luckily, with his low weight, he can escape a lot of combos that may work on most characters who are a bit heavier.

Villager/Isabelle, Ness/Lucas, King Dedede King K Rool, Inklings (those that zone correctly), R.O.B., All Links, Simon/Richter Piranha Plant, Falco, Wolf, Ivysaur and characters like them that have good projectiles are usually quite difficult to actually approach but that doesn’t make the match impossible.
I would say that the best tool of any Ninja in a scenario provided by zoning characters - is patience.

What usually works for me is doing a full hop and charging a fully charged Water shuriken while falling during their projectile spams to force them to use an option so I have time to approach or just pelting them with small shurikens when I can especially against villager/Isabelle (you don’t want a full shuriken thrown back at you of course).

Since I’ve Started playing more patiently against Zoners myself, i’ve began to take bigger advantage of the windows I am given by simple mistakes they make when trying to create a wall. Once you do get in, you want to try to get as much damage as you can and not let the opponent breath with your combo game and then capitalize on any airdodge or roll mistakes/reads you can get before their character “sets up shop” again. Rinse and repeat.

And while, for example, Ness may be able to edge guard perfectly against Greninja with his Yo-Yo, most of these match-ups shouldn’t be too one sided in the opponents favor since Greninja is so fast that he can usually approach while a defensive zoning option is being used.

Speed is your ally and trying to not go into disadvantage is really your main goal.

Against other Brawlers, I see Greninja having a great advantage with his speed and good range as well as his own zoning potential. UNLESS they are FASTER than him.... Sonic is still a bad matchup.

Against Swordies, it can be a little tough if you don’t space correctly, but I usually rarely struggle with them other than Link’s.

Zoners are really the only thing I see Greninja struggle with consistently since our favorite Frog doesn’t have the absolute BEST options for approaching, but they are still quite good.

That’s my 2 cents.

 

[3DSNinja]

sonic can be water shruikened to keep him at bay. Especially since he can't go through us anymore. Water shurikens kill sonic easily.

 

[Schroe]

sonic can be water shruikened to keep him at bay. Especially since he can't go through us anymore. Water shurikens kill sonic easily.

This is true but if you are playing against a smart sonic they will usually not let you breath.

 

[3DSNinja]

even good Sonics have to get a punish, so water shuriken heck even substitute or shadow sneak might be useful here.

 

[swaggaterious johandsome]

I second greninja and the hardest matchup or one of the hardest for me is Zelda... esp passive aggressive camp Zelda ... dthrow follow ups usually get interrupted by her lasting hit boxes... in fact a lot of nair into or dtilt into can be interrupted with nair or crystal... or worse you trade with lightning kick after 60 n that’s a stock no matter where you are and the fact that everything she does is in fact a kill option including getting up b’d from the middle of the stage at 63 n dying lol back throw around a 100 the crystal even if you call it out has a really low punish window ... help?

 

[SJMistery]

I second greninja and the hardest matchup or one of the hardest for me is Zelda... esp passive aggressive camp Zelda ... dthrow follow ups usually get interrupted by her lasting hit boxes... in fact a lot of nair into or dtilt into can be interrupted with nair or crystal... or worse you trade with lightning kick after 60 n that’s a stock no matter where you are and the fact that everything she does is in fact a kill option including getting up b’d from the middle of the stage at 63 n dying lol back throw around a 100 the crystal even if you call it out has a really low punish window ... help?

The matchup can be easily won as long as you keep in mind these four rules-of-thumb:

1) Don't be afraid to use Water Shuriken, you can spam them faster than she can reflect them (and she will have to predict them, meaning baiting a reflect and charging for longer will be very effective) and even if she does reflect one it will get destroyed by your next WS unless you charged them all the way, in wich case you can just jump over them, or apply the rule 3.
2) Use your aerial mobility to bypass her defenses.
3) Punish with Shadow Sneak or Substitute every time she attempts to use her projectiles. They are so laggy that you can even do that on reaction.
4) Once you get the percentage lead, just play keep-away with the Shuriken and Fair until the other player either gets frustrated enough to attempt to approach (and with Zelda's terrible movement and neutral tools, that's a free combo-video-worthy punish) or just accepts the inevitable and SDs.

 

[swaggaterious johandsome]

The matchup can be easily won as long as you keep in mind these four rules-of-thumb:

1) Don't be afraid to use Water Shuriken, you can spam them faster than she can reflect them (and she will have to predict them, meaning baiting a reflect and charging for longer will be very effective) and even if she does reflect one it will get destroyed by your next WS unless you charged them all the way, in wich case you can just jump over them, or apply the rule 3.
2) Use your aerial mobility to bypass her defenses.
3) Punish with Shadow Sneak or Substitute every time she attempts to use her projectiles. They are so laggy that you can even do that on reaction.
4) Once you get the percentage lead, just play keep-away with the Shuriken and Fair until the other player either gets frustrated enough to attempt to approach (and with Zelda's terrible movement and neutral tools, that's a free combo-video-worthy punish) or just accepts the inevitable and SDs.

I’ll look more at incorporating shadow sneak n honestly I’ve been trying to improve my movement because I know shield is terrible in this game it’s just finding the balance between holding advantage n not getting gimped by Zelda up b on ledge she has a lot of make you move tools like fireball n the minion to hide behind while she sets up shop

 

[SJMistery]

I’ll look more at incorporating shadow sneak n honestly I’ve been trying to improve my movement because I know shield is terrible in this game it’s just finding the balance between holding advantage n not getting gimped by Zelda up b on ledge she has a lot of make you move tools like fireball n the minion to hide behind while she sets up shop

I barely noticed a difference. Greninja's shield game has always been sixteen flavors of terrible, so the new shield mechanics actually even things out with the rest of the cast.

Zerlda's Up-B is easy to read. Just use Substitute the moment you hear the teleport sound and you will punish her HARD.

 

[MERPIS]

Can anyone give me advice for the 4 marths? I constantly feel like I can't get near them because our aerials, while safe as heck, are so slow while theirs are incredibly fast and have much more range.

 

[SJMistery]

Can anyone give me advice for the 4 marths? I constantly feel like I can't get near them because our aerials, while safe as heck, are so slow while theirs are incredibly fast and have much more range.

There is how to beat them in 3 steps:
1) Get them offstage
2) Use Hydro Pump in their general direction
3) Taunt
No, seriouslty, their recoveries are so bad in the horizontal range department I've lost count on how many times I've gimped them below 20% in Smash 4 and Ultimate. If you want a practical example, just look a the first and last games of the Salem (Greninja) vs M2K (Cloud) finals of Tipped Off 12.

 

[MERPIS]

There is how to beat them in 3 steps:
1) Get them offstage
2) Use Hydro Pump in their general direction
3) Taunt
No, seriouslty, their recoveries are so bad in the horizontal range department I've lost count on how many times I've gimped them below 20% in Smash 4 and Ultimate. If you want a practical example, just look a the first and last games of the Salem (Greninja) vs M2K (Cloud) finals of Tipped Off 12.

What direction is best for gimping them

 

[SJMistery]

The best angle is diagonally, so the stream pushes them way from the stage. If you want to see the sequence in motion, Venia did it recently. You have it in the 0:50. I left a timestamp on the video.

https://youtu.be/gGVPbHJQvWM

 

[SmiteKnight]

Does anyone have advice on how to beat Fox? I have a hard time dealing with his pressure.

 

[Father Kelso]

This is simply my experience from playing online. This doesn't mean I think this is what other players would necessarily experience. If Someone's not on this list it means I have haven't played them much.

Hard for Greninja:


Evenish match:


In Greninja's favor:

 

[Leap of Faith]

Where do you guys think wario is on this chart even or hard for greninja?

 

[Firox]

Where do you guys think wario is on this chart even or hard for greninja?

I feel like Wario's frame data gives Greninja a hard time unless you are really good with your spacing. Disjoints like Fair and Nair can hold him off but from what I've seen in tournaments, Wario seems to dominate the ground game. Personally, I don't have a ton of experience against really good wario's but this is just my observations.