Greninja item set ups (WIP)

[Lawliet626]

Hey guys Froge here,
I decided to hit the lab and see what sorts of combos we have with the items of other characters. I will leave this as a WIP (Work in process) since i am unable to keep labbing set ups due to reasons outside of my control. Although i plan on covering gyro set ups next, and pacmans fruits are also in my list.
If requested, i will also cover Bomb set ups
A few things to note are:
*items will send the opponent in the direction you are facing when you threw the item.
*combos with a big percentage range will most likely require a change in position to pull off at the later percents.
*DACIT = Dash attack canceled item throw.
*All of these combos are true unless noted otherwise.


Diddy Kong (banana)
Notes:
*Diddy kong’s banana does a force trip that will be the same at any percents, in other words, all of these combos
work at any percent.

-DACIT Down/ Forward into Dsmash.

-DACIT down into Fsmash (What makes this combo different from Glide toss Forward into Fsmash and the reason I
put it separate is that you must do the Fsmash the opposite way due to greninja sliding too much that diddy will end
up being behind him, not in front of him).

-DACIT Forward into All tilts attacks/Smashes.

-DACIT into all tilts (For up tilt, Glide toss forward is the better choice since this one will make the uptilt send upwards
unless you perfect pivot back, and for Dtilt, it would be the same thing for fsmash that you have to do it the opposite
way, same with Ftilt).

-DACIT forward into dash attack.

-DACIT Forward / Down into Shadow sneak (Yes, its actually a true combo)
Item throw to dash grab.
-DACIT Forward into dash grab.

-DACIT backward into Grab in the opposite way (same situation as the tilts and Fsmash).
-Item throw to Bair / Fair.

-DACIT Down / Forward to Bair / Fair.

-DACIT Down / Forward into Dair.

-Item throw / DACIT Forward / Down into Shuriken (will true combo until half charge, after that anymore charge is
considered a string).

-Item throw / DACIT Forward / Down into Nair.




I had set ups with mechakoopa, but they were lost in the process of my wiiu
If anything, We have similar bomb set ups as toon link since both our Fairs come out in the same frame but our mobility is superior, and DACIT down into Upsmash with gyro starts killing at 85% or so and stop killing around 120%
Its not much but i hope this was of some help.

 

[Y2Kay]

Gosh Darnit! I've always wanted to lab this post my results, but you beat me to it !

I do think this research will be very important for these match ups.

 

[Lawliet626]

Its helps alot, we can get kill set ups and everything thanks to our mobility!
I doubt any other board has done this, itll really help the meta

 

[Derpnaster]

I might test out Link's bombs and see if the frog can bombslide enough to make it worth going for.

On that not Jump Canceled Dash Throwing is a common tool that Link uses to set up his bombs and most of the time he can true combo it into kill confirm fair or uair at high percents, we might be able to pull off the same stuff

 

[Lawliet626]

Im pretty sure we can, i was able to do it with Toon links bomb and confirm it into a fair for the kill
We have superior mobility, its a matter of knowing the duration of the items and what now

 

[Derpnaster]

Im pretty sure we can, i was able to do it with Toon links bomb and confirm it into a fair for the kill
We have superior mobility, its a matter of knowing the duration of the items and what now

3.8 seconds for Link's bombs, more than enough for us if we can catch after one second, which for most Link's is about when they throw the bomb, the smart one's will cook it for about two to three seconds or just C4 the bomb after pulling it, which we can still abuse by picking it up with a quick dash attack with a follow up bomb combo.

 

[redcometchar]

Greninja can do all of megaman's metal blade shenanigans, and catching metalblade is easy peasy. Since we can't respawn metal blade, we have to be careful about letting it touch the ground.

G FS-> Z drop-> FS-> jablock combo

Jc item toss down-> Jc item toss down-> dtilt or an aerial or smash or whatever. Jc item toss down repeats are garunteed on megaman from 10 to 55 percent.

Sh zdrop-> fast fall-> sh recatch-> instadrop ->
This one is pretty godlike. After the second insta drop you can get a nair recatch into a jab lock combo, or a tilt into a jab lock combo, or a footstool recatch.... into a jab lock combo.

Also doing multi zdrops with megamans metalblade on shield is a true block string on shield and breaks shield after 9 hits which is 2 to 3 drops. or 2 drops and an aerial.

Also having items gives us legitamite oos options, like frame 5 zdrop or frame 9 projectile oos when jc thrown down and 10 frame when thrown forward.

And it's ditcit not dacit. You cant dash attack when holding an item.

 

[Lawliet626]

Greninja can do all of megaman's metal blade shenanigans, and catching metalblade is easy peasy. Since we can't respawn metal blade, we have to be careful about letting it touch the ground.

G FS-> Z drop-> FS-> jablock combo

Jc item toss down-> Jc item toss down-> dtilt or an aerial or smash or whatever. Jc item toss down repeats are garunteed on megaman from 10 to 55 percent.

Sh zdrop-> fast fall-> sh recatch-> instadrop ->
This one is pretty godlike. After the second insta drop you can get a nair recatch into a jab lock combo, or a tilt into a jab lock combo, or a footstool recatch.... into a jab lock combo.

Also doing multi zdrops with megamans metalblade on shield is a true block string on shield and breaks shield after 9 hits which is 2 to 3 drops. or 2 drops and an aerial.

Also having items gives us legitamite oos options, like frame 5 zdrop or frame 9 projectile oos when jc thrown down and 10 frame when thrown forward.

And it's ditcit not dacit. You cant dash attack when holding an item.

I was told it was DACIT from a fellow link main
But damn, thats some pretty cool stuff, but doent greninja like slide way too far to catch the metal blade??

 

[Derpnaster]

generally JC tosses are better for this kind of thing. They let us buffer a follow up pretty easily so I usually just go with something like this, using ROB's top.

Dash attack item grab ~> JC up throw~> Grab~> Uthrow into top, or bomb for extra damage and sometimes a uair follow up.

 

[Lawliet626]

How much damage? You got good creativity for these combos!

 

[Derpnaster]

I'm not certain since I really only use that kind of combo with Link but I know that bomb on contact can tack on an extra 5% and assuming top does about the same maybe a little less I'd say you could feasibly get around 15% from the throw into top or bomb. Though as Link what I like to do is pull bomb ~> dash ~> JC uthrow ~> grab uthrow(About 8%) Usmash (15%)~> bomb (5%) so a single combo can net 28% with link.
If greninja can do the same thing our usmash does around 20% as is so if we tack on bomb or top damage it's around 25% base or higher.

I'm not able to test it but I'd really like to confirm if that is even possible. I honestly think that these kind of combos are just awesome and for an agile character like Greninja the ability and awareness to use items like this makes for much more fun matches.

 

[Lawliet626]

Does link pull that off with a grab or a dash grab? Because if its with a dash grab them we might slip far away enough for the bomb not to hit, i can definitely see a an opportunity for Nair/ Fair for an easy 30% percent

 

[Derpnaster]

It depends, since that particular combo is in fact a setup it's variable though if you dash grab remember you will have to back throw to hit the bomb and follow it up with a bair or pivot jump fair or nair at low percents or just a uair at high percent.

I've used pivot grabs before to get the bomb setup but in reality since Link is rather slow he can't effectively follow up, however Greninja can follow up with his uair or nair strings for massive damage.

On the ROB top combo of earlier, I actually got to a place for testing it out and uthrow into top can work out to a possible extra 50% if you push the string hard enough and regrab top several times to keep it going, you can also uair grab to while hitting ROB so keep that in mind.

 

[redcometchar]

I was told it was DACIT from a fellow link main
But damn, thats some pretty cool stuff, but doent greninja like slide way too far to catch the metal blade??

Naa, The frog can still grab it after a jc toss.

I think back/ forward throwing into bombs is going to be more efficient than up throw, because up throw is super linear and di-ing out of it is easy even if you get the super telegraphed grab right underneath the bomb.

 

[Derpnaster]

It is but if you wait for the bomb to come down a little or do a soft throw normal toss it's hard to escape.
Also at low percents if you uthrow ~> usmash sweet spot they will be kept in long enough to get hit with the bomb allowing for a possible follow up.

I use back throw if I have to dash grab out from under the bomb and forward throw if I can get a dash into pivot grab with good timing.

 

[Derpnaster]

I have an update on bombsliding, greninja gets little to no benefit from it. His sliding usmash goes farther.

I tested this on the 3DS using a bobomb as a stand in. To calrify Link gets full benefit from bomb sliding with a bob omb.

EDIT:

Disregard the above, I was too slow so I kept doing the JC up throw, I tried a different input and got actual results. Greninja actually goes FARTHER than Link on a true bombslide.

 

[Lawliet626]

It wouldve been really odd if Link got more out of it than link due to greninja being MUCH slippery.

 

[Derpnaster]

He still does get more in terms of kill setups, bomb true combos into all his killing aerials and his throws seem to have less lag but I'm not certain. But in terms of movement Greninja goes farther faster, just try not to do a fake out slide.

I also don't think or bases distance on how little traction a character has. Took Link for example gets less of a benefit than Link yet Tink is slippery

EDIT, never mind, Luigi crosses half the stage using up throw. But I'm not certain how much us the bomb slide and how much us just luigi.
further more, Link crosses exactly one quarter of the stage using the C stick set to smash method.


to explain, when the C stick is set to smash it can be used to input a second throw after a JC dash throw. However it only works for one frame after A is pressed, since grab, used to do the JC throw, is an A+L input it overrides C. However C is buffered so it comes out frame 2, in other words, the exact frame for a true slide, it only works with up throw so keep that in mind.

 

[Y2Kay]

さっきのロボ交流会の時に
ん？、と思ったことを
やってみたが
需要あるかは
わからん…
まず近寄れん… pic.twitter.com/8oesA3urWJ

— ラッツ/Rattsu (@Rattsu_dq) May 8, 2016

 

[Derpnaster]

So if I have this right. Grab top~jump z drop (JZD from here on out)~ dair ~regrab~JZD ~dair regrab~JZD~ (repeat sequence)dair spike~footstool~dair~fair to finish.

Awesome, but is that even viable for actual play or just fun combo video stuff?

I was also playing for fun today and while trying ROB for kicks I did a top drop ~ FF uair (Much like our own infamous Uair drag) ~ top hit rising uair to death, it was on Halberd but I think Graninja can do the same thing given how similar both uairs are.

 

[Y2Kay]

Apparently iStudying has figured out how to do it and optimized it into a zero - to - death. LOL

 

[Derpnaster]

one step closer to mastery that one is.

Also, anyone try using Robin's books as finishers?

 

[Lawliet626]

I tried to pay a visit to the robin boards and see if the dropped items have a kill percentage range or if its possible to have combos with them but no answer.....