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Global Warming

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Kalypso

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Let's all forget we saw 'An Inconvenient Truth' for a second, and disregard all the media (Which is, in almost every case, ignorantly biased and completely null of facts) we have had sway our minds and look at Global Warming in a rational manner. These things, in order, must be determined for Global Warming to be a problem, and for action to be taken.

1) Is Global Warming Happening?

2) What is the cause of this Warming?

3) What can we do to reduce this Warming, realistically?

Each of these questions has interesting answers most people are rather ignorant of, although it's not really your fault, EVERYONE (This includes the vast majority of the scientific community, a very small % are environment specialists and the rest are just as vulnerable to being blinded by media surge as the rest of us) is senselessly biased and flash-screened on this issue by new-age environmentalism. There's no one person to blame, don't waste your time, just look at the truth.


1) Is Global Warming Happening?

Well, yes. And no. The Earths temperature naturally fluctuates, rather wildly. If you watch a Discovery Channel program about the study of Antarctica, they can cut open ice from thousands of years ago and chart the Earths temperature back hundreds of thousands of years. Not only is it not a straight line, but there are constant jagged changes. If you look at any section of 100 years, the temperature is either going up or down, and this is long before man could ever have an impact on the planet.

So in short, yes, at the CURRENT time the earth is getting hotter. Is that necessarily a bad thing? No. However, let's look at the causes.


2) What's causing Global Warming?

The answer to this question seems to change every few years, The real answer? No one knows. No scientist can say with any certainty that they know what causes warming or cooling. The most likely cause for this is, of course, that the earth is naturally fluctuating as part of its climate and we don't fully understand it yet, but there are some correlations.

CO2 and Warming- It's true that CO2 and Warming are related. However, here's the largest part where Al Gore completely fails, this ruins his entire argument, his movie, and likely a few years of his life. Warming causes a rise in CO2, not the other way around. I've seen this stated by scientists a good 5 times, if someone calls me on this I'll go dig up some links. Warming happens before the CO2 rises. Gore is right that CO2 and Warming are linked, he just didn't stop to think for a second that the correlation worked the other way.

Your Hybrid cars and funny lightbulbs aren't helping. They make you think you're helping, but they're not really. Electrical Cars have some amazing promise (Along with that of Nuclear Power Plants), however the technology hasn't progressed enough to make good use of it.

So what's causing the warming? Well, we don't ****ing know. No one does. The earths climate is simply far too complicated to know what's really causing it. CO2 emissions certainly aren't a good thing, but they aren't doing it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Global_Warming_Swindle


3) If Global Warming is happening, can we do anything about it?

This question has the most problem from the typical person, because a simple line of logic follows that is we are the cause of Global Warming, that we can stop it... right? Well, I've already shown that we aren't the cause, or at the very least if we are we don't even know how we are. So... what can we do about it? Write a poem, drive a hybrid, lobby congress?

None of the above would help, and the third leads to billions of dollars being wasted, maybe. However (And this is one of the only times I'm ever going to day this), George W. Bush has our back, Hold your replies, flames, give me a second to speak. The man refuses to sign the Kyoto treaty on Global Warming. Some of you may be thinking "That ****, he hates the environment," however his choice is very smart. That treaty puts enormous restrictions on the Economy, costs a ton of money, and doesn't really have any solid plan to reduce global warming. It is not supported by scientific facts, and it isn't.... reliable. He refused to sign it and saved us a ton of money.

If we don't know what causes Global Warming (Which we don't), how can we seek to change it?

A great many people want to help, and do what they think is helping. However, what they are really doing is giving money to opportunists cashing in on nation-wide warming hysteria. Welcome to Capitalism. In reality, since we don't even know what causes Warming, we can't stop it, and even if we could it probably wouldn't be a good idea. We don't understand the earths global climate well enough to start ****ing with it. We need to focus on other issues.

If you want to help the earth, donate to a real cause, that can really help (DONATE to a REAL scientific/charity group, taking steps to stop the problem, not a ****ing awareness group. Awareness groups are completely worthless and are a waste of money. Billions of dollars are wasted on 'breast cancer awareness,' when if all that money went to curing it no one would need to know about it because we'd have ****ing cured it by now. **** awareness organizations). AIDS, Malaria, Starvation, Malnutrition, Cancer, Stem Cell Research, etc. There are countless good causes where your money can really make a difference. Throwing money at the nameless Warming threat is a waste of everyones time.


In closing-

No one really knows why the earth is getting warmer, and it's very likely that it's getting warmer of its own volition.
Because we don't know why it's getting warmer, we don't know that it's us, and we know that it's NOT CO2 emissions. Reducing CO2 emissions is a false hope.
Even if we knew what was going on, we probably wouldn't be able to change it, and putting money in OTHER causes that we CAN change is a much more senseable matter.

I'll find more links tomorrow, although I've seen at least 4 different programs saying almost the same thing, that the Global Hysteria is ridiculous and based on false information. It's really hard to fight misconceptions that everyone has though, just look at recycling.
 

Mic_128

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Global warming isn't the best way to say it. Climate change is better. Want proof? Look at the large number of floods, cyclones, droughts and so forth that'ss been happening in recent years.
 

snex

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uhh warming causes CO2, not the other way around? youre kidding right? even if warming does cause CO2, its a proven fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas that will increase warming. if warming spurns even more CO2, what you have is a runaway process that will be out of control.

its a simple experiment to prove that CO2 causes warming. just fill a glass with it and leave it out in the sun, see how the temperature of it varies against the rest of the air.
 

Crimson King

I am become death
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Some of the best arguments against Global Warming have to be that our temperature changed 1.8 degrees over 100 years. Meaning people in 1906, who didn't have cars or television, were our accurate reading for if the planet is getting hotter.

Like Mic I saw both sides of the argument and say it's just "Climate Change." Global Warming is just a better term because we can fix global warming, we can't fix climate changes.
 

Kalypso

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Some of the best arguments against Global Warming have to be that our temperature changed 1.8 degrees over 100 years. Meaning people in 1906, who didn't have cars or television, were our accurate reading for if the planet is getting hotter.

Like Mic I saw both sides of the argument and say it's just "Climate Change." Global Warming is just a better term because we can fix global warming, we can't fix climate changes.
To some extent I agree with Climate Change, but really they're two separate arguments, and my post deals mostly with false-truths perpetuated by Gore and the media, that no one really thinks twice about.
 

AltF4

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I think that the problem with the Global Warming debate is that it is being done by the wrong people for the wrong reasons. Climatology is an extremely complex subject, one that is best left up to the experts. I happen to be an expert in only a few areas, none of which are Climatology, and I assume neither are any of you. As such, do not assume that the "evidence" you see is indisputable.

If I wanted to, I could show you numerous mathermatical proofs that show 1=2. And if you did not know a considerable amount of math, you could not find the flaws in them. If I presented them convincingly enough, you might even have believed it. (also assuming you're not an expert in the field of math)

So instead of listening to politicians tell us what we ought and ought not to do, how about we do what is best just for our own sake? Conserve some gas not because it will stop global warming, but because it will get rid of some of that smog surrounding the city and maybe save you some cash too. Change your lightbulbs to fluorescent not because it will save the ecosystem, but because your room won't get so hot, and again it'll save you some money. Whether human actions are causing global warming or not is moot as I see it.
 

Kalypso

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So instead of listening to politicians tell us what we ought and ought not to do, how about we do what is best just for our own sake? Conserve some gas not because it will stop global warming, but because it will get rid of some of that smog surrounding the city and maybe save you some cash too. Change your lightbulbs to fluorescent not because it will save the ecosystem, but because your room won't get so hot, and again it'll save you some money. Whether human actions are causing global warming or not is moot as I see it.
I'm voting for this guy
 

Falco&Victory

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uhh warming causes CO2, not the other way around? youre kidding right? even if warming does cause CO2, its a proven fact that CO2 is a greenhouse gas that will increase warming. if warming spurns even more CO2, what you have is a runaway process that will be out of control.

its a simple experiment to prove that CO2 causes warming. just fill a glass with it and leave it out in the sun, see how the temperature of it varies against the rest of the air.
Regardless of that statement, no amount of CO2 we poured into the atmosphere in the past 100 years could have created such a rapid increase in temperature. CO2 has been pouring into the atmosphere for billions of years. Forest fires, fires of wars, natural gases escaping, and so on. We, in 100 years could simply not have increased the amount of CO2 in the air more than 50,000,000,000 years of nature. To do so we would have to be creating 5,000,000,000 much more carbon dioxide annually.

So instead of listening to politicians tell us what we ought and ought not to do, how about we do what is best just for our own sake? Conserve some gas not because it will stop global warming, but because it will get rid of some of that smog surrounding the city and maybe save you some cash too. Change your lightbulbs to fluorescent not because it will save the ecosystem, but because your room won't get so hot, and again it'll save you some money. Whether human actions are causing global warming or not is moot as I see it.
I second that vote. Is there some award we can had this guy?
 

snex

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Regardless of that statement, no amount of CO2 we poured into the atmosphere in the past 100 years could have created such a rapid increase in temperature. CO2 has been pouring into the atmosphere for billions of years. Forest fires, fires of wars, natural gases escaping, and so on. We, in 100 years could simply not have increased the amount of CO2 in the air more than 50,000,000,000 years of nature. To do so we would have to be creating 5,000,000,000 much more carbon dioxide annually.
the problem with your argument is that while CO2 has always been produced, there was always something to counter-act it. since most CO2 was produced by biological organisms, evolution was always fast enough to keep organisms able to survive in the environment. when life began, the earth was much warmer and there was a lot of CO2. a lot of the first organisms used this CO2 and produced oxygen, which cooled the environment down - but then new organisms started using the oxygen and produced CO2. this leads to an equilibrium state where the temperature will be mostly steady. any event (major volcano, asteroid, massive fossil fuel burning) that upsets this equilibrium too fast for life to adapt will change the temperature and lead to either ice ages or long warming periods.

the problem is not that the earth wont eventually fix itself. the problem is that humans wont survive long enough for the earth to do so.
 

blazedaces

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Regardless of that statement, no amount of CO2 we poured into the atmosphere in the past 100 years could have created such a rapid increase in temperature. CO2 has been pouring into the atmosphere for billions of years. Forest fires, fires of wars, natural gases escaping, and so on. We, in 100 years could simply not have increased the amount of CO2 in the air more than 50,000,000,000 years of nature. To do so we would have to be creating 5,000,000,000 much more carbon dioxide annually.
I'm sorry dude, but you have not researched the subject one bit. Our planets CO2 level fluctuates over time and is directly correlated with our planet's average temperature. We currently use frozen ice blocks to measure CO2 levels at different times in our past (don't argue with me on this process, go to a real source and look up real information, I'm not the expert). You're definitely making up numbers, but it doesn't matter, fact is we have certainly increased CO2 levels in the atmosphere by an extremely large amount.

To say that we are the only factor to the extremely large contribution of C02 in today's atmosphere is almost a consensus in the scientific community (correct me if I'm wrong, I might be, but last time I checked...). Still, whether we are the direct cause of the so-called "global warming" is still up to debate and personally, I have not made a decision quite yet on the matter.

I second that vote. Is there some award we can had this guy?
We all vote on who is allowed into the debate hall. First there's a trial period and we vote based on those posts...

-blazed
 

Falco&Victory

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@Blazed: How did I make up these numbers? Our planet is billions of years old(at least 60 billion if you believe carbon-dating is accurate), and the global temperature has only been rising a noticeable amount in the pass 100 years. You and Snex are right, the environment could usually keep up with natural CO2 levels, but I still don't believe that humans could produce so much CO2 as to increase the global temperature by almost 2 degrees in a century.
 

snex

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Our planet is billions of years old(at least 60 billion if you believe carbon-dating is accurate),
ROFL! carbon dating cannot date rocks. carbon dating is only accurate out to 50,000 years. the earth is 4.55 billion years old. please dont post such nonsense and expect anybody to take you seriously. it shows you havent done any research at all.
 

AltF4

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Lol, the universe is estimated as being at a maximum of 20 billion years old. Made up numbers, ftl?

And as has been said previously, ice cores from Antarctica show that the earth's temperature has and does change very rapidly from time to time. You can't substantiate a claim such as "global temperature has only been rising a noticeable amount in the pass 100 years".
 

Falco&Victory

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Oops, sorry about that. I was using a source that was a bout 15 years old. Still, that only changes my numbers so much. So, humans would still have to be pouring more than 500,000,000 times more CO2 into the air than has been produced by humans in years past to have caused global warming. That would be quite a feat.

@AltF4Warrior, I meant that for a few centuries the earth has been experiencing a consistent climate, and it's only started rising again in the early 1900's. I didn't say that the climate never fluctuates, that's common knowledge. The temperature has been shown to have risen just under 2 degrees in the past 100 years.
 

snex

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Oops, sorry about that. I was using a source that was a bout 15 years old. Still, that only changes my numbers so much. So, humans would still have to be pouring more than 500,000,000 times more CO2 into the air than has been produced by humans in years past to have caused global warming. That would be quite a feat.
you were never using a source. no source anywhere has ever claimed what you claimed.

and 500,000,000 times more CO2 within a few hundred years? not a problem. humans made essentially NO CO2 before the late 1800s.
 

Falco&Victory

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That isn't true at all. Fire creates CO2. Fires of war were common during the middle ages, and especially during the dark ages.Entire cities were set to fire. In some cases entire forests were set to fire to clear ground or for other reasons. There is no way mankind could have in the last 100 years have raised global temperature 2 degrees. The small ice age 500 years ago wasn't our fault, and neither is this temperature spike.

Yes, I was using a source. I was using an old book, published in 1963. Called 'Old as Earth". It's really pretty weird. People had weird views back then. It's older than my sister's bible.
 
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